Implications of Heresy

[achilles12604]

I have finally found a title which I think describes my religious views. I have created a usergroup to match. I accept many of the tenants of Christianity. I accept many of the core values and teachings. In fact let me just list them out.

I accept God exists.
I accept Jesus was his son and unique among men.
I accept that Jesus death atoned for sin.
I accept that Jesus performed miracles.
I accept that God inspired many of the writers of the bible.

Now begins my Heresy.

I accept that God inspired other great men of different faiths like Gandhi

I accept that salvation is a matter of the heart and faith is a byproduct or a symptom of the condition of this heart.

I accept that much of the bible can not be read literally

I accept that some of the stories of the bible are nothing more than stories, nor were they ever meant to be more than this.

I accept that people of other faiths have the potential for salvation just as any Christian would

I accept that the church has fallen far from where it originated.

I accept that the writings of Paul and the other disciples, while lead by God, are still personal interpretations and therefore subject to personal bias.

I do not accept the church taught concept of original sin.

I do not accept the sinlessness of Mary

I do not accept the concept of sainthoods

I do not accept that hell is a place for eternal torture in some fire lake

I accept (basically) some form of evolution/ID

I do not accept a young earth creation model.

I accept much of the current church as hypocritical and lazy

I accept that God reaches out to all men where ever they are through whatever beliefs they hold.

I accept that God knows just about everything, but can not know individual futures nor do I think this idea is supported well by scripture.









Now, I leave this WIDE open. I certainly will not take offense to anything written here. I want brutally honest opinions.

Who does not believe that my current beliefs allow for my own salvation (I am hell bound)?

Who believes that any of my current beliefs contradict another of my current beliefs?

Who here would not consider me a "true Christian"?

Which of my beliefs are directly contradicted by scripture?

What would Jesus say of my beliefs? What would you imagine him telling me?





Honesty people. Brutal, ugly, in my face, even to the point of suspending rule #1 for a moment, HONESTY

[achilles12604]

I accept that some of the stories of the bible are nothing more than stories, nor were they ever meant to be more than this.

How do you decide which is which?

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... php?t=7589

I accept that the church has fallen far from where it originated.

How do you rate this?

1) My personal experience with churches (I was church searching for a LOOOONG time) and how their actions compare to their words.

2) The reaction of Christians to those who are truly in need

3) The primary life goals of Christians I have spoken to

4) The existence of Mega Churches and the message they put forth

5) The Percentage of gifting done by Christians as compared to the rest of the world.

I accept that the writings of Paul and the other disciples, while lead by God, are still personal interpretations and therefore subject to personal bias.

So the verse that says "all scripture is inspired" is a lie or bias?

And where is this verse found?

I accept (basically) some form of evolution/ID

some form?

Nothing is certain. But I can not accept the theological insertions of Pure Intelligent Design. Nor can I fully accept the totally unguided process which brought about evolution. So yes, some form or combination of the two. My own personal recipe.

I accept much of the current church as hypocritical and lazy

Could an argument be made for the current church vs the current psedo church?

Sure the argument can be made. But perceptions are powerful.

I accept that God knows just about everything, but can not know individual futures nor do I think this idea is supported well by scripture.

can not?

C-A-N N-O-T.

Which of my beliefs are directly contradicted by scripture?

Maybe some of the previoulsy noted, or it is semantics.

Well let's to it. Examine.

[Joonwoo]

Accepting that Jesus Christ as your lord and savior is NOT ENOUGH!!!
SATIN accepts that fact, probably even more than we ever can!

Are you familiar with this verse?

Mathew 7:21-23

"Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I NEVER KNEW YOU; depart from me, you who practice LAWLESSNESS.'

Sheer belief is not enough. You must do as God wills. He has laws too that we must obey. If you have been changed by the holy spirit of God, you will know sin when you confront it. You must repent from these sins and never spot repenting. Repenting is not just realizing that it is bad. Repentance means that you know it is bad and you absolutely detest it and you never do it again because you hate it now.

A good example of this would be of David. The bible says that he was a generally not so grateful man and he sinned like no other YET, the bible also says that God loved David more than most other men in the bible as well.
Why is this? The Bible says that David, though young and foolish, KNEW how to truly REPENT for his sins. He committed many sins but he repented for every one of them in the right manner, in the way we ought to...

[WinePusher]

I realize this thread is a couple years old, but there are so many thought provoking questions here and I can't resist. And hopefully achilles will come back and begin contributing more of these excellent posts!

I accept that the church has fallen far from where it originated.

I don't see how this is true, it may have been true in the middle ages, but certainly not today. The Christian Churches in the modern world still fullfill their purpose of charity, evangelization, and spreading the good news. I would say that it is much better off.

I do not accept the church taught concept of original sin.

In the Catholic Church, it is called original sin. In protestant churches it is known as Total Depravity. The concept that man is born sinful and that the human race is stained with sin is a foundational principle affirmed many times in both the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures, perhaps you could extrapolate on why you reject this.

I do not accept the sinlessness of Mary.

The Bible says that Mary found favor with God, this can be intrepreted to mean that Mary was born sinless and remained sinless all her life. She was one of the few who experienced God in a unique manner.

I do not accept that hell is a place for eternal torture in some fire lake.

I agree, that's an unforunate misconception, I don't think hell is eternal.

I accept much of the current church as hypocritical and lazy.

I don't see how, the current Church has been a driving force for biblical and christian virtures. It's educating, and living out its committment to spread the good news to the ends of the earth. Are their any specific things you think that have happened to the Church?

Who does not believe that my current beliefs allow for my own salvation (I am hell bound)?

I think that God looks down with joy when he sees people thinking out their faith and questioning well accepted truths with boldness.

Which of my beliefs are directly contradicted by scripture?

Original sin, if we as humans were not born into a fallen state then what is the need for atonement?