Can a Christian be a Patriot?

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Jemima
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Can a Christian be a Patriot?

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Post by Jemima »

This is a really good question for Christians, especially those raised in a very patriotic environment. To understand what happens when children are taught to love their country as much as they love God, is an part of the question....a trap.....because Patriotism and Christianity actually compete for our allegiance....and usually patriotism wins. Divide and conquer is an old strategy. So, why are they incompatible......and why does patriotism dominate over Christian teaching?

Because of this Law of God...”thou shalt not kill” (ratsach in Hebrew means to “kill” but especially to “murder”) meaning to take a life without God’s sanction.
There were cities of refuge in Israel where even an accidental manslayer was sent because he was still accountable to God for the loss of the life he took.

Looking back at the nation of Israel, we see that God sanctioned war only when Israel and its territory were threatened. Nations outside saw that their God-given land was prime real estate (“flowing with milk and honey”) and they wanted it for themselves. God authorized his people to defend that land because he gave it to them. But the original inhabitants were corrupt and violent, so God gave them permission to evict those depraved people.
Once in the Promised Land, they never went on the offensive, (that is to take land that was not theirs) but only on the defensive to protect their own land, and to show those nations, who often came to war in the name of their false gods, that Israel’s God was fighting for them, defeating not only that nation, but showing that their gods were useless.

Israel’s wars are in no way an excuse for Christians to take up arms and kill their fellow man for purely political reasons. This is a difficult subject to broach with those who have been taught from childhood that their country is sacrosanct and therefore they have a right to defend it by killing any who might threaten them.

Acts 10:34-35 says....”At this Peter began to speak, and he said: “Now I truly understand that God is not partial, 35 but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.” So this means that God does not consider his Christian worshippers as members of any particular nation, but sees them all as part of his spiritual family. Christians virtually then have no nationality, (they become citizens of God’s Kingdom) and too many are living in lands stolen from their original inhabitants anyway. No one’s land is God-given, which means defending it by killing others is the same means by which the aggressors acquired it in the first place. The acquisition was evil....grand theft and murder in fact. Seeing this through God’s eyes is vastly different to seeing it through indoctrinated human eyes.

When Jesus said...”You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? 47 And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? 48 You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” we need to ponder his words carefully because according to 1 John 5:19..."the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one".
That means that there is no part of the world that is out of the devil's control. There is actually no such thing as a "Christian" nation.... and there is no such thing as a "just war".

Sadly, these words are virtually ignored by those whose patriotism outweighs their Christianity. Do you see the trap? When our allegiance is divided, the devil forces you to choose and he then he makes you blood guilty because you will break God’s law by taking human lives defending something God never gave you in the first place. Fighting over land has caused the spilling of much blood over the centuries and continues to this day.

Our Indigenous Australians see fighting over land like fleas fighting over which part of the dog they inhabit. And God sees the world he created in much the same way. Christians today live in all nations and are instructed by Jesus to 'love their enemies', which means we can do them no harm. We cannot hate them, no matter what they do to us. The first Christians showed us that. A genuine Christian will take a bullet for someone, but will never fire one.

So I’ll leave the Christians among you to ponder that serious subject because when strong emotions are involved, sometime clear thinking ability abandons us....
It’s a hard thing to process, but I believe that God will give us the right attitude if we ask him....
Always what I post is my opinion, according to my understanding.

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Re: Can a Christian be a Patriot?

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Post by otseng »

[Replying to Jemima in post #20]

If someone attacks you, please just report it and ignore it. Consider it an opportunity to practice self-discipline. O:)

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Re: Can a Christian be a Patriot?

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Post by Jemima »

otseng wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:25 pm [Replying to Jemima in post #20]

If someone attacks you, please just report it and ignore it. Consider it an opportunity to practice self-discipline. O:)
Just because someone addresses me personally, I do not consider it an attack.....just an observation. As I am not easily offended in this very PC world, it would be a rare thing for me to report anyone in a debate situation or even a discussion unless it got nasty and really insulting.

People are entitled to their opinions even about me...it doesn't bother us Aussies. We aren't that precious. We call a spade a spade and sometimes its hard to understand that a small ruffle can become a big deal......not sure it makes any sense TBH. But I'll try to restrain myself.... :)
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Re: Can a Christian be a Patriot?

Post #23

Post by Tcg »

[Replying to Jemima in post #1]

A Christian can be pretty much anything. Even a former serial killer/cannibal.

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Re: Can a Christian be a Patriot?

Post #24

Post by Jemima »

Tcg wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:32 pm [Replying to Jemima in post #1]

A Christian can be pretty much anything. Even a former serial killer/cannibal.
I guess anyone can call themselves whatever they like.....its whether Jesus Christ considers you a disciple or not.
In Matthew 7:21-23, he tells some who claim to be his disciples that he actually never knew them....so there's that... :confused2:
Always what I post is my opinion, according to my understanding.

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Re: Can a Christian be a Patriot?

Post #25

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to Jemima in post #19]
That depends on your own mindset.
Yes it does. Believers believing in the same god have different views on it. One would think if god's real and loves its people, it wouldn't allow such divisiveness.
Of course, when one wants to believe something so bad (some would say need to believe), they can over look all sorts of inconsistencies and illogical things, making excuses. That works for some people. Personally, I'd expect more from any god. But perhaps I expect too much from such an impotent thing as the christian god?
There is no proof that he doesn’t.
You brought it up so it's yours to prove per your blatantly false statement of fact here: "when in actuality these are what God provided for all his creatures for free."
Care to provide proof outside your wishes, hopes, needs and desires? Proof that's verifiable and tangible through scientific study, not a wishy-washy 'I believe' retort?
Why is it that people who are unbelievers can quote the Bible as if they actually know what it says….?
Why is it that believers think they know everything?
See how easy that was?
Food, water and oxygen are not manufactured by the world…..food grows in the ground, from seeds that are found in the plant
That means they're provided by (aka manufactured by) the world. Ground? Part of the planet. Seeds? From plants on the planet. The world. Literally.
Now if you are referring to the symbolic 'world', that's an altogether different issue which isn't being addressed by my previous statement.
.
How is it hypocritical?
You said:
"If we work and pay our taxes, then we are entitled to the public facilities that we pay the government for." after saying ""What the world does is its business....nothing to do with us."
Saying you're entitled after saying the world has nothing to do with us is hypocritical as stated.
It seems to me that you are mistaken about a lot of things,
No place here did I say (aside from a joke or two) that I'm incapable of being wrong.
but don’t let that stop you from offering your misconstrued understanding of biblical things
"And he said to them, “Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.”" Maybe you should try harder?

Seriously though, I could say the same about anyone here - yourself included. Fact is, it's fairly likely I was a christian longer than many on this site have been alive. Instead, I choose to learn from others. And I've already learned a lot from you. Thank you.

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Re: Can a Christian be a Patriot?

Post #26

Post by otseng »

Jemima wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:21 pm It seems to me that you are mistaken about a lot of things, but don’t let that stop you from offering your misconstrued understanding of biblical things…..if you even remotely understood them, you could not post what you do.
I don’t blame you entirely for that, but whoever gave you the understanding that you express, has a lot to answer for IMO.
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Re: Can a Christian be a Patriot?

Post #27

Post by Tcg »

Jemima wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:00 am
Tcg wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:32 pm [Replying to Jemima in post #1]

A Christian can be pretty much anything. Even a former serial killer/cannibal.
I guess anyone can call themselves whatever they like.....its whether Jesus Christ considers you a disciple or not.
In Matthew 7:21-23, he tells some who claim to be his disciples that he actually never knew them....so there's that... :confused2:
Perhaps, but of course you know that it was not Jeffery Dahmer that proclaimed himself a Christian. It was rather his pastor Roy Ratcliff who did so. Roy, a disciple of Christ, who actually knew Dahmer made the determination and baptized him...so there's that...


Tcg
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- Irvin D. Yalom

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