Correlation Between "Christian Nationalism" and Covid 19 Vaccination Hesitancy

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Diogenes
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Correlation Between "Christian Nationalism" and Covid 19 Vaccination Hesitancy

Post #1

Post by Diogenes »

To what extent do "Christian nationalism" and Covid 19 vaccination hesitancy correlate?
If there is such a correlation, is it causative? To what extent does science denial play a role?
For the purpose of this topic "Christian nationalism" is defined by agreement that the federal government should declare the United States a Christian nation?"

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Re: Correlation Between "Christian Nationalism" and Covid 19 Vaccination Hesitancy

Post #21

Post by Purple Knight »

Diogenes wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:57 pmThe issue is whether you have an obligation to take reasonable and easy precautions to keep YOURSELF from infecting others, particularly when you know, or should know you are contagious. The way you have misstated the issue, you would have no duty to wash your hands after a bowel movement, but instead march directly into the kitchen and prepare and serve raw food.

Washing your hands is like getting a vaccination. Both are free, easy, and reduce the risk you will harm others.
If people are paying you for that food, yes that comes with obligations. You've slipped in a contract - when one person pays another person and gets things in exchange - and you've had that appear reasonable because 99% of the time, if you're getting food, you're paying for it. If the contract was written out, that would be in it. That's because nobody would pay for food that potentially has bits of poop in it. (Despite this, there is a legally allowable amount of RAT TURDS and MAGGOTS that can be in most foods, and it's not zero.)

If you simply come into my house and want food, I should probably inform you if I don't wash my hands because it's so common that it may have created a misconception that I'm required to, but no, I have no moral obligation to wash my hands at that point. And if they make a law that says I have to do this, the way I will get my way and not have to wash my hands is to not serve you free food.

Real, meaningful, rightly enforceable obligations don't simply appear on one person's back and have to be carried around, especially not in a competitive society. I would probably be arguing the opposite if we lived in a cooperative society, but we don't.

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Re: Correlation Between "Christian Nationalism" and Covid 19 Vaccination Hesitancy

Post #22

Post by Diogenes »

Purple Knight wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:54 pm
Diogenes wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:57 pmThe issue is whether you have an obligation to take reasonable and easy precautions to keep YOURSELF from infecting others, particularly when you know, or should know you are contagious. The way you have misstated the issue, you would have no duty to wash your hands after a bowel movement, but instead march directly into the kitchen and prepare and serve raw food.

Washing your hands is like getting a vaccination. Both are free, easy, and reduce the risk you will harm others.
If people are paying you for that food, yes that comes with obligations. You've slipped in a contract - when one person pays another person and gets things in exchange - and you've had that appear reasonable because 99% of the time, if you're getting food, you're paying for it. If the contract was written out, that would be in it. That's because nobody would pay for food that potentially has bits of poop in it. (Despite this, there is a legally allowable amount of RAT TURDS and MAGGOTS that can be in most foods, and it's not zero.)

If you simply come into my house and want food, I should probably inform you if I don't wash my hands because it's so common that it may have created a misconception that I'm required to, but no, I have no moral obligation to wash my hands at that point. And if they make a law that says I have to do this, the way I will get my way and not have to wash my hands is to not serve you free food.

Real, meaningful, rightly enforceable obligations don't simply appear on one person's back and have to be carried around, especially not in a competitive society. I would probably be arguing the opposite if we lived in a cooperative society, but we don't.
So, you concede that in a cooperative society we do have an obligation to get vaccinated and take other reasonable health precautions. That there are elements of competition in a cooperative is obvious. What is obtuse is to insist it is 100% one way or the other.

What we do, in most societies, is agree to a social compact. We implicitly make a deal: If we want the benefit of association, we agree to cooperate to some extent. What criminals and cheaters do, is to accept the benefits of association, of living together in this country, then despise the rules of decent conduct and steal from each other and cheat. You don't want to follow the rules, but you want 'in,' you're a cheater. We can't even have good and fair competition without rules. We only have chaos and disease.

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Re: Correlation Between "Christian Nationalism" and Covid 19 Vaccination Hesitancy

Post #23

Post by Purple Knight »

Diogenes wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:44 pmSo, you concede that in a cooperative society we do have an obligation to get vaccinated and take other reasonable health precautions.
I said probably. It would, I think, depend on the specifics of the society. Nazis were (except for the whole Jew-killing thing, which everyone ought to reject) a cooperative society, but I can imagine their social compact legitimately reaching into the backpack of goals, pulling out a different pokeball, and shouting, "Natural selection, I choose you!"

So yes there can be exceptions, and in this case I would even agree that it's a good reason. What they would probably do is deny vaccinations, and what I would probably be arguing is, if you're in the vulnerable group, you get it, and then you get spayed.

Why I reject the Jew-killing and not this is because one is unfair. Social compacts that are not fair, that create unfairness, target specific people for the benefit of others, should be rejected as invalid. There also has to be a darn good reason to go against the default. Defaults exist for a reason, so we don't end up with the worst of both worlds.

If vaccine mandates are upheld by our society, I still reject them because they're not fair. Even if it's one in ten million compared to one in a thousand, the exceedingly rare person who will have a reaction to the vaccine and die did not deserve to die. His dying serves no purpose, so you can't sacrifice him to save one, or ten, or a thousand. You can offer the vaccine and hope everyone gets it and he sacrifices himself voluntarily, but you can't sacrifice him for others without a good reason, because it's not fair. Mandating the vaccine is the same as cutting him up for organs because, "Look, we can save more people."

You can't pull a consistent social compact out of that pokeball. It's going to be a monstrosity. You can't justify wanting the opposite of the Nazi society and putting the weak first if you're going to put this weak person last. Without a very good reason you can't sacrifice him for another person, or ten, or a thousand.

I would only be arguing for vaccine mandates or a moral obligation to vaccinate in a cooperative society where doing what you can for others is just the assumed guiding principle. It doesn't serve the strong, it doesn't serve the weak, numbers are a bad argument (especially in an overpopulated society), so it would have to serve the principle.

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Re: Correlation Between "Christian Nationalism" and Covid 19 Vaccination Hesitancy

Post #24

Post by Diogenes »

Among other problems your post exhibits, is a woeful misunderstanding of the facts.
2000 people each day die from Covid variants, in the U.S. alone, 866,000 to date.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60133618

The U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled vaccine mandates do not violate the Constitution.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/197/11/

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Re: Correlation Between "Christian Nationalism" and Covid 19 Vaccination Hesitancy

Post #25

Post by Purple Knight »

Diogenes wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:38 pm Among other problems your post exhibits, is a woeful misunderstanding of the facts.
2000 people each day die from Covid variants, in the U.S. alone, 866,000 to date.
I never said they didn't. I said, you can't sacrifice one to save others without a good reason.

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Re: Correlation Between "Christian Nationalism" and Covid 19 Vaccination Hesitancy

Post #26

Post by Diogenes »

It's good to know there ARE some religious groups on the sane side of current politics.
https://www.faithfulcitizensnetwork.org ... n-vaccines

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Re: Correlation Between "Christian Nationalism" and Covid 19 Vaccination Hesitancy

Post #27

Post by The Barbarian »

Kenisaw wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 2:24 am Vaccine hesitancy seems to come from the obvious fact that the COVID shot is not a vaccine and does prevent the infection from or transmission of the virus.
Maybe you don't know what a vaccine is. What do you think it is? Hint: the purpose of a vaccine is to prevent serious illness and/or death.

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Re: Correlation Between "Christian Nationalism" and Covid 19 Vaccination Hesitancy

Post #28

Post by Abigail »

Those so called Christian Nationalists join a whole bunch of people. Those who are aware mRNA vaccines have been researched around the world since the late 1980's , yet were never permitted for release into the public domain. As well as the will to live.

What I find curious is public figures who openly spoke against the vaccine and/or COVID-19 and the plandemic have died from COVID-19.
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Re: Correlation Between "Christian Nationalism" and Covid 19 Vaccination Hesitancy

Post #29

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

Diogenes wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 3:11 pm To what extent do "Christian nationalism" and Covid 19 vaccination hesitancy correlate?
If there is such a correlation, is it causative? To what extent does science denial play a role?
For the purpose of this topic "Christian nationalism" is defined by agreement that the federal government should declare the United States a Christian nation?"
The United States is a very strange place when it comes to Christianity, unlike any other place in the world I think.

It is here that we see a huge prevalence of politicized Christianity, fanaticism, fundamentalism often with an irrational hatred of socialism.

It may stem from the Puritans, I don't really know, but I do know that the Puritans were not the only non Catholic Christians back in the day, there were of course the Quakers and a much more rational and decent bunch these were too.

I find Christianity in the US to be freakish, with weird sects like JWs and Mormons and then we have the "evangelicals" and "charismatics" and many of those I've met are frankly of questionable rationality.

It may also be the case that the US just has a higher proportion of truly poorly educated people than most other modern democratic societies.
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Re: Correlation Between "Christian Nationalism" and Covid 19 Vaccination Hesitancy

Post #30

Post by Diogenes »

Purple Knight wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:23 pm
Diogenes wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:38 pm Among other problems your post exhibits, is a woeful misunderstanding of the facts.
2000 people each day die from Covid variants, in the U.S. alone, 866,000 to date.
I never said they didn't. I said, you can't sacrifice one to save others without a good reason.
What 'sacrifice?' Getting vaccinated ªand wearing a mask} follows the teachings of Jesus.
It preserves his life and his teaching, both of which foster the idea of consideration of others and regular logic ad protection of the environment.

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