Who are the "groomers"?

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Jose Fly
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Who are the "groomers"?

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Post by Jose Fly »

On Sunday, a report summarizing an independent investigation into sexual abuse in US Southern Baptist churches was released. The investigation uncovered some very disturbing details:
1. Top leaders repeatedly tried to bury sex abuse claims and lied about what they could do

The report describes how key Southern Baptist leaders engaged in a pattern of ignoring, stonewalling and even “vilifying” sex abuse survivors. The report details multiple instances when Southern Baptist leaders shot down requests by survivors and other concerned members to maintain a database of abusers. Publicly, the leaders said they couldn’t because of “church polity,” or the denomination’s decentralized structure. But the report found that their attorneys had advised them that they could keep such a list and that the leaders did so in secret.

2. A former SBC president was considered “credibly accused” of sexual assault

3. Unheeded warnings went on for decades

The report also described a series of instances when leaders ignored warnings by sex abuse survivors and advocates. In 2016, a person called to report a pastor’s involvement in abuse of her mother. According to the report, a staff member for the Executive Committee asked Boto, “Do I call this lady back? I suspect no.” No documents indicate a follow-up response, the report said.

4. Leaders seemed to put concern over potential litigation over people’s safety

Southern Baptist leaders appeared to value avoiding lawsuits over preventing sexual abuse, according to the report, which stated, “it is striking that many reform efforts were met with resistance, typically due to concerns over incurring legal liability.” For example, based on outside counsel, leaders recommended removing the word “crisis” when referring to sex abuse.
When we put this together with similar problems in the Catholic Church, Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Mormon Church, it's quite apparent that US Christianity has a widespread and long-running problem with sexual abuse and covering it up.

As horrific as all that is, it's particularly galling given recent efforts by Christians across the US to paint LGBTQs as either abusers themselves or "groomers" (people who manipulate and prepare victims for abuse). From they way they tell it, transgender people are constantly lurking in bathrooms, ready to assault unsuspecting children and women, and LGBTQ teachers and school officials are "grooming" students to become future victims. From that hateful and bigoted position they seek to use the force of government to relegate LGBTQs to second-class status.

Yet in reality, children are at far greater risk from being abused in Christian settings! And when that becomes apparent, Christians take deliberate steps to not only cover it up, but demonize the victims and protect the abusers!

So what's going on here? Is this sick and hateful people projecting their own faults onto others? Is it a case of "every accusation is really a confession"? Something else? All of the above?
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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

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Post by Diogenes »

Jose Fly wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 2:22 pm As horrific as all that is, it's particularly galling given recent efforts by Christians across the US to paint LGBTQs as either abusers themselves or "groomers"....
My understanding of Christianity is that it emphasizes choice and free will, despite a faction that believe in 'predestination' and a limitation on the number of 'souls' that are 'elect.' But even that group acts like we can choose.

In any event I have no respect for a belief system that blames people for their status when they had no choice about the category they were born into. Whether it be gender or race or having a 'flat nose' [Leviticus 21:18], anyone with a high school level of knowledge should know these are qualities one does not, can not, choose.

But then facts are not the strong suit of the 'faithful.' But one would think just the slightest honest introspection would reveal the truth to them if they just were willing to remember that they did not choose their own gender preference.
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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

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Post by Wootah »

Diogenes wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:54 pm
Jose Fly wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 2:22 pm As horrific as all that is, it's particularly galling given recent efforts by Christians across the US to paint LGBTQs as either abusers themselves or "groomers"....
My understanding of Christianity is that it emphasizes choice and free will, despite a faction that believe in 'predestination' and a limitation on the number of 'souls' that are 'elect.' But even that group acts like we can choose.

In any event I have no respect for a belief system that blames people for their status when they had no choice about the category they were born into. Whether it be gender or race or having a 'flat nose' [Leviticus 21:18], anyone with a high school level of knowledge should know these are qualities one does not, can not, choose.

But then facts are not the strong suit of the 'faithful.' But one would think just the slightest honest introspection would reveal the truth to them if they just were willing to remember that they did not choose their own gender preference.
Are you saying that paedophiles don't choose their preferences?
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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

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Post by Wootah »

[Replying to Jose Fly in post #1]

I think you are right of course about the abuse and cover-up and the examples posted here shame those Christians.

But a quick google gives me a random article to NZ of all places.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... uiry-finds

Just look into state-based institutions and I think the maths strongly suggests the government enables way more abuse. Let alone general public schooling which seemed to me entirely abusive to everyone in general.

In my view institutions are dangerous, they become the group/government to God and then people start serving the group/government.

Blaming churches or govt isn't getting to the root cause. There was that psychological experiment where kids played guards and prisoners and the guards started abusing the prisoners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_ ... experiment

People give up their individuality to their role/group far too easily and then anything is possible. In Australia, where I live, the churches in response to the abuse have instituted various policies to conduct behaviour. I hope they are following them. But I think all of us should do likewise, don't meet anyone alone, always have the door open, etc.

Anyway. I don't see a solution. Just punish the bad guys when we catch them.
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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #15

Post by Jose Fly »

Wootah wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:49 am [Replying to Jose Fly in post #1]

I think you are right of course about the abuse and cover-up and the examples posted here shame those Christians.

But a quick google gives me a random article to NZ of all places.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... uiry-finds

Just look into state-based institutions and I think the maths strongly suggests the government enables way more abuse. Let alone general public schooling which seemed to me entirely abusive to everyone in general.

In my view institutions are dangerous, they become the group/government to God and then people start serving the group/government.

Blaming churches or govt isn't getting to the root cause. There was that psychological experiment where kids played guards and prisoners and the guards started abusing the prisoners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_ ... experiment

People give up their individuality to their role/group far too easily and then anything is possible. In Australia, where I live, the churches in response to the abuse have instituted various policies to conduct behaviour. I hope they are following them. But I think all of us should do likewise, don't meet anyone alone, always have the door open, etc.

Anyway. I don't see a solution. Just punish the bad guys when we catch them.
It's important to not lose sight of my point. Many of the Christian bigots who are running around calling for LGBTQs to be banned from sectors of society, arrested, or even executed justify their hate by accusing LGBTQs of being "groomers" (people who "groom" others for future abuse). But just a cursory look at cases of abuse indicates that kids are far more at risk in Christian settings than at drag queen story hours, pride events, etc. So if these Christians really were worried about protecting kids from abuse, they'd clean up their own house first.

But this isn't really about protecting kids. It's about hate....and that's the point.
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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #16

Post by Jose Fly »

Diogenes wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:54 pm
Jose Fly wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 2:22 pm As horrific as all that is, it's particularly galling given recent efforts by Christians across the US to paint LGBTQs as either abusers themselves or "groomers"....
My understanding of Christianity is that it emphasizes choice and free will, despite a faction that believe in 'predestination' and a limitation on the number of 'souls' that are 'elect.' But even that group acts like we can choose.

In any event I have no respect for a belief system that blames people for their status when they had no choice about the category they were born into. Whether it be gender or race or having a 'flat nose' [Leviticus 21:18], anyone with a high school level of knowledge should know these are qualities one does not, can not, choose.

But then facts are not the strong suit of the 'faithful.' But one would think just the slightest honest introspection would reveal the truth to them if they just were willing to remember that they did not choose their own gender preference.
Whenever a Christian starts up with me about "being LGBTQ is a choice", I skip over the argument about whether that's actually true and go straight to "And so is Christianity, so what's your point?"

Typically, that's when the real hate starts pouring out.
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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

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Post by Clownboat »

Jose Fly wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:31 pm
Diogenes wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:54 pm
Jose Fly wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 2:22 pm As horrific as all that is, it's particularly galling given recent efforts by Christians across the US to paint LGBTQs as either abusers themselves or "groomers"....
My understanding of Christianity is that it emphasizes choice and free will, despite a faction that believe in 'predestination' and a limitation on the number of 'souls' that are 'elect.' But even that group acts like we can choose.

In any event I have no respect for a belief system that blames people for their status when they had no choice about the category they were born into. Whether it be gender or race or having a 'flat nose' [Leviticus 21:18], anyone with a high school level of knowledge should know these are qualities one does not, can not, choose.

But then facts are not the strong suit of the 'faithful.' But one would think just the slightest honest introspection would reveal the truth to them if they just were willing to remember that they did not choose their own gender preference.
Whenever a Christian starts up with me about "being LGBTQ is a choice", I skip over the argument about whether that's actually true and go straight to "And so is Christianity, so what's your point?"

Typically, that's when the real hate starts pouring out.
I'm a straight man that couldn't walk in to a gay bar, watch at a male stripper and choose to get aroused. Therefore, for me at least, it is not a choice.

Makes me wonder how many Christians are actually gay or bi as I must assume for them, they could choose to be aroused by the same sex because the choice is argued to be available. In reality, the choice is not there for everyone (just those thare are gay or bi I assume, Christian or not).
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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

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Post by Jose Fly »

Clownboat wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:49 pm I'm a straight man that couldn't walk in to a gay bar, watch at a male stripper and choose to get aroused. Therefore, for me at least, it is not a choice.
To be clear, I don't think it is either. My point is that when Christians try and argue about it being a choice, it's a red herring.
Makes me wonder how many Christians are actually gay or bi as I must assume for them, they could choose to be aroused by the same sex because the choice is argued to be available. In reality, the choice is not there for everyone (just those thare are gay or bi I assume, Christian or not).
Yep. Another response I'll sometimes give after a Christian says being LGBTQ is a choice is "So you're telling me you feel you could potentially choose to be gay". They tend to get rather upset at that.
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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

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31 more abuse, neglect lawsuits filed against Miracle Meadows School

Jul 12, 2022
CHARLESTON – More than 30 additional lawsuits have been filed against Miracle Meadows School by former students who say they were abused at the private boarding school.

The 31 complaints were filed June 29 in Kanawha Circuit Court against Miracle Meadows School Inc. and Susan Gayle Clark, who was the school founder and director.

“The sexual, physical, and emotional abuse endured by these children was horrific,” Ben Salango, one of the attorneys representing the 31 plaintiffs, told The West Virginia Record. “The children were handcuffed, sexually assaulted, kept in isolation, beaten and tortured by those trusted with their care and education.

In the latest complaints, the unnamed plaintiffs accuse the defendants of bodily injury, sexual abuse, invasion of privacy, false imprisonment, education malpractice and other wrongful acts while at the Seventh-day Adventist boarding school located in Salem in Harrison County.”
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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #20

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This story not only relates to the concept of "groomers" but also on the gullibility of evangelicals. Remember this guy?

Powerhouse preacher Ted Haggard faces new allegations of illicit behavior
National evangelical Christian powerhouse Ted Haggard, who founded New Life Church in Colorado Springs in 1984, grew it to 14,000 worshippers and was excommunicated in 2006 amid accusations that he paid a male escort for sex and was using methamphetamine, is facing new allegations from another congregation he started in 2010, Saint James Church.

Some former members allege that Haggard has continued his tendencies toward same-sex encounters and illicit drug use, and they say they have proof.
The details are in the article. It amazes me how often evangelicals will continue to follow and support disgraced televangelists, oftentimes even giving them money even after they'd been convicted of fraud (e.g., Jim Bakker).
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