Trayvon's avengers

[rosey]

Since the young Trayvon Martin was shot by George Zimmerman, African Americans have been getting revenge for his death... on Caucasians. Why are they beating up white people? Zimmerman is Hispanic.
They beat up this guy,

http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2012/apr/23/2 ... r-3659891/

A couple days ago some boys beat up a 19 year old white kid, "For Trayon."

And some more African American boys beat up real bad a 80 year old white man.

WHY?

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 40:

How long do some Americans have to keep apologizing for wearing white skin?

As long as they keep gettin' onto others for not.

...why is the death of African Americans only important if a 'white" person is doing the killing?

I never said, nor implied, anything of the sort.

But let me make it as clear as I can...

I don't much care what this'n did to that'n, or what that'n did to this'n, nor do I care how recently or remotely in our past such has occurred...

If you can't get past the notion that we ought'n be wailing on one another due simply to the color of our skin, I can't help ya a bit.

[dianaiad]

From Post 40:

How long do some Americans have to keep apologizing for wearing white skin?

As long as they keep gettin' onto others for not.

...why is the death of African Americans only important if a 'white" person is doing the killing?

I never said, nor implied, anything of the sort.

But let me make it as clear as I can...

I don't much care what this'n did to that'n, or what that'n did to this'n, nor do I care how recently or remotely in our past such has occurred...

If you can't get past the notion that we ought'n be wailing on one another due simply to the color of our skin, I can't help ya a bit.

Now, Joey,

That was the whole point of my post, y'know? That we SHOULDN'T be 'wailing on one another due simply to the color of our skin?" The problem here isn't that we disagree on this.

It's that too many politically correct folks think that this only applies to the white guy.

[phoenixrising]

Since this forum appears to be mostly atheist [I don`t mind but got bored with it],
and I came here to engage evangelical fundies [fundie forums don`t allow me in] who are rather scarce [hello winepusher, you are the obvious one], I reverted back to reading only.

However, this topic prompted me to log on and jump into the fray.

This discussion reminds me of ev-fundie forums and their prevailing attitude.
I am virtually drowning in the flood of christian love being unleashed by several folks here. *gag*

It is fascinating how it is always non-white peoples who are committing all the crimes [against white people], init?
WHO those criminals are depends on which non-white population group happens to be the largest in any given geographical area of the country.
Some places it is blacks, some places it is indians [the "invisible people"], other places asians [they get accused less, but they were in one city I lived], mexicans, muslims.......in my home state it is the local indian people.
Never mind that some 85% of all violent crimes in my home state are perpetrated by whites on the indians.

To anyone assuming I am a liberal, you are wrong.
What I am is a "nota" - that`s the "none of the above" in political surveys.
It means both, liberals and conservatives, hate me as much as they hate each other.

phoenix

[dianaiad]

Since this forum appears to be mostly atheist [I don`t mind but got bored with it],
and I came here to engage evangelical fundies [fundie forums don`t allow me in] who are rather scarce [hello winepusher, you are the obvious one], I reverted back to reading only.

However, this topic prompted me to log on and jump into the fray.

This discussion reminds me of ev-fundie forums and their prevailing attitude.
I am virtually drowning in the flood of christian love being unleashed by several folks here. *gag*

It is fascinating how it is always non-white peoples who are committing all the crimes [against white people], init?
WHO those criminals are depends on which non-white population group happens to be the largest in any given geographical area of the country.
Some places it is blacks, some places it is indians [the "invisible people"], other places asians [they get accused less, but they were in one city I lived], mexicans, muslims.......in my home state it is the local indian people.
Never mind that some 85% of all violent crimes in my home state are perpetrated by whites on the indians.

To anyone assuming I am a liberal, you are wrong.
What I am is a "nota" - that`s the "none of the above" in political surveys.
It means both, liberals and conservatives, hate me as much as they hate each other.

phoenix

Back during the days of real discrimination, when Langston Hughes was writing about dreams deferred, when young men and women 'of color' were being told that they couldn't drink from the same fountains, sit in the same restaurants or go to the same schools as the white folks, it was acceptable for those people of color to talk about it; to tell the truth. The only people who hated them for doing so were the bigots, the racists and the frightened.

The majority white population could talk about it, too...and the only people who criticized were the haters, the bigots and the racists.

Now, of course, we get incredibly stupid statements like 'it is impossible for a minority to oppress a majority," and "it is impossible for a minority group to be racist." (try putting that quote into google and see just how many people honestly claim this!). In fact, I was told straight out in a university sociology class that this is so; it doesn't matter WHAT the minority group does, or says, or thinks--or gets passed into law--it can't be called racist, or discriminatory, or oppression, because being a member of the majority means that nothing done TO you can be considered such.

Here's the problem with that sort of thinking, though. Turns out that we are ALL minorities of one. When a black kid with an A- GPA gets a scholarship that the white kid with the A GPA didn't get--because of their SKIN COLOR, then it's not a blow being struck for equality. It's ONE young white person being discriminated against.

When a young black woman gets told to get the coffee for the meeting, where her white co-worker (because she's fair-skinned and perhaps even blond) gets to make the presentation, it's not all of white America being discriminatory against all of black America. It's some stupid white guy being discriminatory against ONE young black woman.

Both things are racist. Both things are discriminatory...and both are WRONG.

And if telling the truth about discrimination and bigotry is good when the black folks are being discriminated against, then it is just as good when the black folks are doing the discriminating. It's wrong EITHER WAY.

In reality, it's me being absolutely the OPPOSITE of being racist: it's me seeing everybody as equal; everybody as human; everybody prone to being stupid, bigoted or discriminatory, and figuring that since we ARE all equal, we should be equally held accountable for our actions. Allowing minorities to get away with crap that the majority is criticized for is NOT advocating equality, after all; it's treating minorities like they were children, or pets, who can get away with stuff because they don't know any better.

It's condescending. Equality, after all, means....equality.

e·qual·i·ty/iˈkwälitē/
Noun:

The state of being equal, esp. in status, rights, and opportunities.
The condition of being equal in number or amount.

And if you want to call me a racist and bigot for saying so, that is, of course, your right. Remember, though, who the critics were when the truth was being told by the likes of Langston Hughes, MLK jr., etc.?

Truth is still truth--and in my opinion, those who contend that "people of color" should not be held to the same standard that the 'white folks' are have a problem; THEY are the racists; THEY are the ones who figure that the 'black folks' are inferior' and somehow 'lesser, 'and not able to play on the field unless the white folks are handicapped in some way, like racehorses.

I know quite a few African Americans who understand that concept, and resent the hell out of it. My husband was among 'em. So are two uncles, a BUNCH of cousins...and my five children.

Now. Anything ELSE to say?

[WinePusher]

It is quite possible that if Zimmerman hadn't shot Martin, that Zimmerman would be the dead guy. In such a scenario, would anybody raise so much as an eyebrow?

You mean that if he did not follow Martin, challenge him and hunt him down, Zimmerman might be dead? If he had followed the advice of the 911 operator and left the policing to the police, he would have been in some kind of danger?

Yea, this is a typical misinformed opinion. I'm sad to see that people all the way up in Canada are buying into this nonsense. If Zimmerman hadn't chased down Martin there would have been no confrontation. Unfortunately, probably cause you're not aware of it, if Martin had not chased down Zimmerman as he was returning to his vehicle there would have been no subsequent confrontation. But the point of richardP's comment is lost on you. There are an entire array of things that could have been altered in order to make the confrontation between the two men avoidable. That's not what the point is. The point is that if it was the other way around; if Martin, a black, had shot and killed Zimmerman, a non-black, there would be no contreversy or public outrage by race baiters.

[MyReality]

I completely agree with dianaiad on this subject. Racism goes both ways but the way America handles it is all wrong. The double standard here in America is sickening and it is seemingly getting worse, it is harder to get benefits, scholarships, medicair, etc... being a healthy white individual than it is being a healthy black,hispanic, indian, asian, individual. Also God forbid any light skinned individual speaks out against this system, that person would be shunned like a leper depending on his professional career of course.

It is very depressing to keep hearing the media keep talking about how every white person that argues against Obama is a racist even though the majority of American's voted him in! Just a few weeks ago a white journalist yelled a few questions out of turn and against etiquette towards the president and the media shot straight through with "if Obama was white", this would have never happened, i mean come on! Really!? There is no other reason at all these past four years that would spur that man on?

I guess the most current example of America's double standards is this most recent case with Trayvon Martin being killed. People were outraged (rightly so) at first becuase of a certain news producer who edited police tapes to make Zimmerman sound like a complete racist psychopath. Later the producer was fired and yet no one cared, studio did not even air an apology. CNN aired reports about the holes in Zimmermans statements about his injuries and how there was no evidence of injury towards him and he was lying. Than all of a sudden pictures from the police/hospital statements prove that he was injured exactly where he stated. Even a miniscule amount of research from journalists could've produced these findings. The black community called out for blood despite all the surfacing evidence that journalists shouldve known about and aired. YET, and YET the most aggrivating part of this is that people who have absolutely nothing to do with the case or the victim/accused, are killing/injuring for the sake of revenge. Like that incident with the two black teenagers dousing a white child on his porch with flammable liquid then setting him on fire while screaming "This is revenge for Trayvon". Or how Dianaiad pointed out how all these other people are being killed and yet this case is the only one being talked about. (Yikes sorry about the rant.)

While in college i had the oppurtunity to participate in a debate class on this very subject. (Because of the controversey of why the college allows an all black club but refuses to give permission for an all white club.) The debate topic was about the double standards society with an emphasis on race.
I went to great difficulty to make create my argument about the absurdities for the existence of these double standards and tried to make it as coherent as possible. It was a success, had a few angry people in the end, but overall success in my opinion. It was attended by the Dean of the university as well, the all black club was taken down and all white club refused. Instead the Dean made it a point to refuse any type of attempted segregation.

Again sorry for the rant, pent up anger i guess. I just had a converation with a buddy of mind on a similar subject. Was interesting, we were at applebees enjoying a few beers and by the middle of the debate we had half the resturaunt listening and participating on it.

[Hubert Humphrey]

To answer the OP's question, the reason is obvious to me.
After a century of persecution, marginalization, and violent acts of terror endured by countless African Americans after the Emancipation Proclamation, the Civil Rights movement called upon white America to end the injustice and accept their black citizens as equals.

The answer was a resounding "No."

Another half-century has passed, and the persecution, marginalization, and violence against black Americans has continued right into the Twenty-First Century. African Americans are fed up, and they should be.
The race war will continue as long as racial hatred continues to be the sanctioned norm in this country

[dianaiad]

To answer the OP's question, the reason is obvious to me.
After a century of persecution, marginalization, and violent acts of terror endured by countless African Americans after the Emancipation Proclamation, the Civil Rights movement called upon white America to end the injustice and accept their black citizens as equals.

The answer was a resounding "No."

Another half-century has passed, and the persecution, marginalization, and violence against black Americans has continued right into the Twenty-First Century. African Americans are fed up, and they should be.
The race war will continue as long as racial hatred continues to be the sanctioned norm in this country

You are honestly contending that black Americans are persecuted and marginalized in the 21st century?

Please. Prove it. Show me the lynchings. Show me the segregated schools. Show me the 'White's only' fountains, buildings, swimming pools. Show me the 'colored's need not apply" signs. Show me the Jim Crow laws. Show me that incredible discrimination you are claiming to see.

Show me that resounding NO.....when the vast majority of civil rights activists in the 60's and 70's were WHITE.

Show me a single organization that limits its members to 'white folk,' is legal, and NOT seen by the vast majority of Americans as beneath contempt.

Show me that resounding "NO"...when almost ALL the civil rights laws were passed, not only by WHITES, but by REPUBLICAN 'whites."

Show me this resounding 'NO' you claim to see.

And I will show you that the vast majority of violence experienced by black Americans comes at the hands of other black Americans. I will show you organization after organization that will NOT allow white members (the congressional black caucus springs to mind, which does not allow white members even if the constituents of a white congress person are mostly black).

You show me this horrific discrimination and persecution you claim exists.

Give me some examples. I DARE you...and if you can find any, show me where those events/incidents are even remotely accepted and approved of with this resounding acceptance of racism on the part of white America.

Go ahead.

..............................and be very prepared for the response. Now me, I'm a member of a very special minority. Yes, I'm white...almost pure Scots descent. However, my husband was not, and my children are not. That makes me the target of BOTH populations. You haven't SEEN disdain or discrimination until you've been the white female half of an inter-racial marriage.

So don't go all 'you can't be anything BUT racist because because you are white and can't be anything else' with me, because I'm not going to put up with it.

You made the claim.
Show me.

[Hubert Humphrey]

You made the claim.
Show me.

For starters, we have less than 14% of the U.S. population comprising over 25% at-or-under the poverty level.
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/ ... verty.html
We have increasing demographic segregation (de facto discrimination)
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=5169990
We have an appalling 71.5% of all hate crimes targeting "victims because of an offender’s prejudice against blacks."
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/no ... ate_112210
We have white cops in Texas given carte blanc to stomp black teenagers to death
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/n ... ating.html
And, of course, we have the majority of white Americans supporting the street execution of Trayvon Martin
http://newsone.com/2001237/trayvon-mart ... an-guilty/

Black America is still very much desperate and under attack. Those who are backed into a corner tend to fight very hard.

QED

[phoenixrising]

dianaiad,

You missed my point entirely [intentionally?], or you side stepped it elegantly.

Only people at the receiving end of serious racism fully know it`s devastating and destructive effects on their lives. And that it`s reality is far from being only a thing of the past, as you and others here apprently believe.
To avoid racism when one is the "wrong kind" one would have to live pretty much as a hermit or recluse............

True, there are non-white people who experience less or little contempt and hate from those who consider themselves superior/THE greatest.
Because they are fully assimilated into AngloAmerican culture.
Non-whites who resist this Anglo demand for assimilation are, as "bad serfs on the culturally correct plantation", not so fortunate.
Their punishment for insisting on remaining who they are is continuous and relentless.
It is a life sentence.
If you think that constant psychological war on a person is not brutal and cruel, you have not experienced it.

Of course, there is crime in non-white communities too.
There is a definite dark side to the human psyche, as well as a good side.
However, what I find particularly hideous is when people are abused and attacked and murdered for WHO they are, for being of the "wrong" culture.
And no, that does not mean that being mistreated in that way for being of the "right" culture is just fine.

My home state has it`s own version of the "blow `em away"...er...."stand your ground" law.
It cannot be used by indian people [and reject whites] for self-defense.
But most white people here can use it and many do.

When an indian person gets raped and tortured and murdered by a white person, or is unjustly incarcerated, it is rarely news. So, do not expect to hear about it from majority society.
Granted, today`s racism is more or less covert or passive-agressive in nature.
Although my home state still grows white folks who like to shoot themselves their "own live injun". It happens on a regular basis.
During the last few years alone several of my friends and friends` relatives were shot. A powerful local judge won`t even bother to conceil his hate for indians.
He sentenced the son of a friend of mine to ?? years in prison for shooting the radiator out of the car of a guy who tried to run over him with the car!

NO STAND YOUR GROUND DEFENSE FOR THIS INDIAN.
Neither for countless others.........