Baptist Church Excludes Democrats

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perfessor
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Baptist Church Excludes Democrats

Post #1

Post by perfessor »

http://www.wlos.com/

I don't get it. Didn't Jesus ply his trade among tax collectors, prostitutes, and other "sinners"?
East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave. Now 40 more have left the church in protest. Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say "the actions were not politically motivated." There are questions about whether the bi-laws were followed when the members were thrown out.
So my question for debate: Should the East Waynesville Baptist Church lose its tax-exempt status?

I say they should, since the pastor has turned the church into an arm of the Republican party.
"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."

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Post #411

Post by bernee51 »

AlAyeti wrote:But, in Muslim countries just being a Christian will get you shot.
I have travelled with christians in several muslim countries. None got shot. You are obviously wrong.


AlAyeti wrote:

I'm more than willing to get out that scales of justice to measure your assertion.

Your scales are not balanced Al. They have the weight of your beliefs on one end.
AlAyeti wrote: 2 and a half million people killed by Christians violating the teachings of Christ
I have already provided evidence that this is incorrect. Why do you continue to ignore evidence?
AlAyeti wrote:
AlAyeti wrote:

The rule of law is clearly derived by Judeo-Christian concepts.

And the Judeo-Christian concepts are derived from...?
The Living God. Yeah yeah, I know "where did he come from." You go to the end of all universes and turn lef- - uh, I mean . . right.
Finally - are you are admitting that you don't know???

BTW - The J-C concepts arose from primarily from zorastrianism and early Egyptian thought.

"The Living God" isn't and has never been alive.
AlAyeti wrote:
I believe we have many diverse Iraqi people fighting with us. Saddam had his rapists and genociders only.
The Iraqis are figthting the Iraqis. And the 'Coalition of the Willing' is not able to stop it. How many more American men and women are going to die or be mutilated in this madness of their own creating.

As for "Saddam's poison gas', history would have seen he back of Saddam - freedom would have come, eventually, from the will of the people. Then it would have been welcomed.
AlAyeti wrote:
AlAyeti wrote:
I have proven the worth of atheism in history. It is very heavy indeed. Not like gold but certainly like the lead in Russian and Chinese and Cambodian guns.
You cannot even see the hypocrisy in you own words can you?

'Atheism' is responsible (not the people), 'christianity' is not responisble it was the people.

You live a blinkered existence, blinded by your own perspective and a sociocentic, narcisstic religion.
AlAyeti wrote:
Are we talking about the Christian slavers that bought those slaves from the Muslims that originally enslaved them?
No the ones that kidnapped the men from their homes in Africa and raped and mutilated their women and children. Those christians.
AlAyeti wrote: Hindus and Muslims are doing very little murdering and bombing of each other in America Bernee.
No Americans do that to each other - Oklahoma, abortion clinics, Southern 'black'' churches.

Two million and a half million of you countrymen in prison. What is the demographic of the average prison inmate?
AlAyeti wrote: Yet, in India the smoke is still clearing.
Ain't that the truth- and the vast majority of the billion people in India condemn such actions.
"Whatever you are totally ignorant of, assert to be the explanation of everything else"

William James quoting Dr. Hodgson

"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."

Nisargadatta Maharaj

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Post #412

Post by AlAyeti »

AlAyeti wrote:
But, in Muslim countries just being a Christian will get you shot.

I have travelled with christians in several muslim countries. None got shot. You are obviously wrong.
I'm a skeptic. I'm sorry but I deny the accuracy of this statement. There is no way to prove it. You know full well what is happening to Christians in Africa and India. Just be honest about it. I'm not trying to convert please feel comfortable in my claiming that as truth.
Quote:
AlAyeti wrote:

I'm more than willing to get out that scales of justice to measure your assertion.

Your scales are not balanced Al. They have the weight of your beliefs on one end.

AlAyeti wrote:

2 and a half million people killed by Christians violating the teachings of Christ

I have already provided evidence that this is incorrect. Why do you continue to ignore evidence?


However you want to duck the truth, it is still five-thousand to one.

AlAyeti wrote:
Quote:
AlAyeti wrote:

The rule of law is clearly derived by Judeo-Christian concepts.

And the Judeo-Christian concepts are derived from...?

The Living God. Yeah yeah, I know "where did he come from." You go to the end of all universes and turn lef- - uh, I mean . . right.

Finally - are you are admitting that you don't know???

BTW - The J-C concepts arose from primarily from zorastrianism and early Egyptian thought.

"The Living God" isn't and has never been alive.


Wow, I'm convinced by the wait of your opinion. Now I can put into practice the Darwinian truth of survival of the fittest. And you can bet I'll be surviving. No, I repent.

The Bible has nothing to hide on this truth about "other gods." Except that Israel's God had enough of false religions and false gods. The Jews are a living reminder of a pure miracle.
AlAyeti wrote:

I believe we have many diverse Iraqi people fighting with us. Saddam had his rapists and genociders only.

The Iraqis are figthting the Iraqis. And the 'Coalition of the Willing' is not able to stop it. How many more American men and women are going to die or be mutilated in this madness of their own creating.

As for "Saddam's poison gas', history would have seen he back of Saddam - freedom would have come, eventually, from the will of the people. Then it would have been welcomed.
Whatever you do, do not give any credence to Bush doing the right thing. Don't do it. Feel better?
AlAyeti wrote:
Quote:
AlAyeti wrote:
I have proven the worth of atheism in history. It is very heavy indeed. Not like gold but certainly like the lead in Russian and Chinese and Cambodian guns.

You cannot even see the hypocrisy in you own words can you?
Hypocrisy when the numbers do not lie? I'm sorry someone has finally made you see the horror of atheism. Now, go watch and abortion!
'Atheism' is responsible (not the people), 'christianity' is not responisble it was the people.

You live a blinkered existence, blinded by your own perspective and a sociocentic, narcisstic religion.
Narcissism? I'm am not a homosexual. I have also held every single person accountable regardless of race, religion or creed or, sexual orientation. Call me Mr. Diversity. Please re-read my posts.
AlAyeti wrote:

Are we talking about the Christian slavers that bought those slaves from the Muslims that originally enslaved them?

No the ones that kidnapped the men from their homes in Africa and raped and mutilated their women and children. Those christians.


You meant to put a question mark right? Because I'm thinking of the Christians that were shattered by the experience of what they did to their fellow man. You know the Abolitionists!!! Any Miuslims apologize for gathering up and enslaving those Africans in Africa?

Any songs like Amazing Grace sung by broken and shattered Muslims?

Lokk into the history of that songs author. And, while you;re at it, look up "It is well with my soul." These kinds of Christians cemented my "faith."
AlAyeti wrote:

Hindus and Muslims are doing very little murdering and bombing of each other in America Bernee.

No Americans do that to each other - Oklahoma, abortion clinics, Southern 'black'' churches.

Two million and a half million of you countrymen in prison. What is the demographic of the average prison inmate?


Comvicted. Please if that is a leaning to oppression "by the man" spare me the racism bit. I've been around.

In America we also don't hack off hands and shoot people in the town square.
AlAyeti wrote:

Yet, in India the smoke is still clearing.

Ain't that the truth- and the vast majority of the billion people in India condemn such actions.
There's a billion Christians in India? Well, that sure saved me a buck a two.

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bernee51
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Post #413

Post by bernee51 »

AlAyeti wrote:
AlAyeti wrote:
But, in Muslim countries just being a Christian will get you shot.

I have travelled with christians in several muslim countries. None got shot. You are obviously wrong.
I'm a skeptic. I'm sorry but I deny the accuracy of this statement.
Are you calling me a liar. Are you saaying that i have not travelled in Muslim countries with christians? Should I post copies of entry stamps in my passport. Pictures of myself and friends in mosques?
AlAyeti wrote:You know full well what is happening to Christians in Africa and India.
In the vast majority of cases absolutely nothing happens to them.
AlAyeti wrote: Just be honest about it.
Are you accusing me now of more dishonesty?
AlAyeti wrote: However you want to duck the truth, it is still five-thousand to one.
Lets see - you admit to 2.5 million deaths attributed to christianity. At 5000 to 1 that works out to 12.5 billion deaths you attribute to 'atheism'.

I'd either by a new calculator AL. Or stop calling the kettle black when if comes to honesty.
AlAyeti wrote: The Bible has nothing to hide on this truth about "other gods." Except that Israel's God had enough of false religions and false gods. The Jews are a living reminder of a pure miracle.
Yeah right - why should the OT be believed over and above the other 'scriptures'?

AlAyeti wrote: Narcissism? I'm am not a homosexual.
Do you understand what is actually meant by narcissism?

And why do you assocaiate it with homosexuality? Your prejudice is showing again Al.
AlAyeti wrote: Ain't that the truth- and the vast majority of the billion people in India condemn such actions.
There's a billion Christians in India? Well, that sure saved me a buck a two.
There you go again - looking at the world through christ coloured glasses and assuming that the only people in this world with any sense of moral rectitude are those that meet your idea of 'true christians'.
"Whatever you are totally ignorant of, assert to be the explanation of everything else"

William James quoting Dr. Hodgson

"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."

Nisargadatta Maharaj

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Hmmm...

Post #414

Post by melikio »

You are absolutely correct except for one thing. We were discussing the ten commandments. AlAyeti asked, "What harm do the Ten Commandments actually do?" which to my mind is a question that can only be asked by someone who is faithful or someone who has not very familiar with them. The first and second commandments, in my view are the foundation of Judeo-Christian religious intolerance and properly belong to those who would impose their particular religion on the rest of us by placing their commandments on public monuments. Can a Hindu or Atheist feel that unbiased fair justice will be meted out in a court where the very walls have inscribed in them the assertion that their belief in god, gods or no god, is to be condemned?
McC, I see your point.

But the problem is the negatives and evils people decide to MANIFEST toward others. As an African American, I've had to learn to IGNORE and counter a bunch of ignorant and hateful stuff.

I don't just "believe" that the way of LOVE is superior to religion, I KNOW it is. I've tried and implemeted BOTH for many years. There are massive differences between knowing the right thing, intending to do the right thing and actually doing the right thing.

I may have (as Christians say) sin in my life, but i don't kid myself about what I DO for people. And actually, I thank God/Jesus for the opportunities to do anything right.

How do I measure what is "right"?

Well, it's not always easy or black/white. All I know as a Christian (or one who is saved by God's grace), I DO realize that NO ONE has to PROVE their worthiness to ME. I just think it's good to LOVE people, then let my faith in God make sense of the rest. They DON'T have to believe what I do, and I don't necessarily believe I can cause them to believe; I simply "believe" that it is good to share the essence of Jesus with them...through the kind of LOVE I believe I've been shown by Jesus and other human beings.

I've seen SO MANY people try to PUSH and COMPEL others to accept their very literal and rigid interpretation of the Bible. There is a lot of wackiness, sadness and facade related to that. I cannot count the number of people who are miserable and lost sitting in the pews of various churches; sitting there empty, wishing someone would REALLY LOVE THEM. Not that Jesus cannot do that, but that so many put that relgious "qualifier" before anything else, that a lot of opportunities to pursue the TRUTH in REAL LOVE are lost (or deferred).

I'm certainly no theologian, and no, I'm not a particularly HOLY person. I'm just someone who has suffered and tried very hard to BE a "Christian". I have learned there are more important things inside of the "struggles", than I could ever really explain. Even so, I know LOVE is a significant key to making sense of the WHOLE CRAZY MESS this reality sometimes represents.

I have some unconventional ways of saying things, because I try to peel the veneer OFF of my heart when I talk to people. (That is likely a by-product of being gay and in the closet for nearly 35 years.) I want people to know I'm HUMAN, that I am just like them in likely more ways than they think. I may not be perfectly sure about myself, but I am very sure about what LOVE can do. Sometimes I "wish" I didn't know, because I could just PUNCH some people, and be done with them. O:) But I've seen LOVE touch even the heart of adversaries, and bend them in ways I could not have ever imagined period. I've seen miracle after miracle, related to showing and spreading love freely (despite my own flaws and those of others).

Though I can't explain it, I can only share what I've seen and invite others to witness it with me. And I'm NOT going to just say I "believe" something because I "should", I'll likely never be able to live that way. Beyond that, I believe it is God's providence to make a difference, within any given person.

-Mel-
"It is better to BE more like Jesus and assume to speak less for God." -MA-

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Post #415

Post by AlAyeti »

AlAyeti wrote:
Quote:
AlAyeti wrote:
But, in Muslim countries just being a Christian will get you shot.

I have travelled with christians in several muslim countries. None got shot. You are obviously wrong.


I'm a skeptic. I'm sorry but I deny the accuracy of this statement.

Are you calling me a liar. Are you saaying that i have not travelled in Muslim countries with christians? Should I post copies of entry stamps in my passport. Pictures of myself and friends in mosques?
I'm a freethinker and a skeptic, unless I put my hands on the pictures I have a hard time believing just anything someone says.

You know . . ., a co-worker ( a buddhist ) gave me a bobblehead gift. The gift was awesome and the "thought of it" was indeed caring, but as I watched the clay figure (yuck) bobble around, the senselessness of what it was doing reminded me of the anti-Christian position so ubiquitous, as to be as laughable.
AlAyeti wrote:
You know full well what is happening to Christians in Africa and India.

In the vast majority of cases absolutely nothing happens to them.
And in the complete majority of cases where Christian missionaries are murdered, they died unarmed and innocent of any crime. Oops, I had to edit this at this point. I know Christianty is outlawed in Muslim countries but I don't really know if there are laws against missionaries in India. Like there is in Islamic run countires, Atheist China and oh, yeah, in Israel too. I'll start the research. It may be that these unarmed missionaries feeding the starving poor are indeed "outlaws."
AlAyeti wrote:

Just be honest about it.

Are you accusing me now of more dishonesty?
I'm just being a skeptic. I really have no evidence that you actually exist. You could really be an infidels.org program just responding to a Christian. I see nothing new and certainly your humanity towards Christians is indeed quite mechanical.
AlAyeti wrote:

However you want to duck the truth, it is still five-thousand to one.

Lets see - you admit to 2.5 million deaths attributed to christianity. At 5000 to 1 that works out to 12.5 billion deaths you attribute to 'atheism'.

I'd either by a new calculator AL. Or stop calling the kettle black when if comes to honesty.
Oops, did I hit the wrong decimal point? Sorry. I'll go with yor 1.25 billion victims of atheist and non-Christians, versus the 2.5 million deaths at the hand of Catholics and Nazi's that has been calculated from someone elses presentation. I just added up his details.
AlAyeti wrote:

The Bible has nothing to hide on this truth about "other gods." Except that Israel's God had enough of false religions and false gods. The Jews are a living reminder of a pure miracle.

Yeah right - why should the OT be believed over and above the other 'scriptures'?


I appreciate how hard you have dug in your heels to refuse to beleive anything Bible. Obviously I am a kindred spirit with my heels dug into the Bible. Please find this the reason I do not really need to answer your contradictory query about providing "evidence." As anyone can see you will not allow anything Biblical to enter as evidence. It is your choice.


AlAy
eti wrote:

Narcissism? I'm am not a homosexual.

Do you understand what is actually meant by narcissism?

And why do you assocaiate it with homosexuality? Your prejudice is showing again Al.
You do know the story don't you? It is the reflection of the human body that should provide the empiricism necessary to accurately describe sex acts, the what and where.

Empiricism and not bigotry guides my conclusions from what the homosexual agenda spouts. But I know that I must endure this epithet. I'm sure the Angels in Sodom got a dose of epithets for blinding the would-be rapists wanting to force their sexuality on unwilling "people."

But, I'm sure that the homosexual activists will picket and harrass that word out of psychiatry as well.
AlAyeti wrote:

Ain't that the truth- and the vast majority of the billion people in India condemn such actions.

Quote:

There's a billion Christians in India? Well, that sure saved me a buck a two.

There you go again - looking at the world through christ coloured glasses and assuming that the only people in this world with any sense of moral rectitude are those that meet your idea of 'true christians'.
I only see the world through the hope there is in Jesus.

Peaceful, nonviolent and questioning.

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Post #416

Post by bernee51 »

AlAyeti wrote: I'm a freethinker and a skeptic, unless I put my hands on the pictures I have a hard time believing just anything someone says.
Share with is the pictures of the risen Christ. We have been asking for evidence - your 10 x 8 glossies should nail it.

AlAyeti wrote: You know . . ., a co-worker ( a buddhist ) gave me a bobblehead gift. The gift was awesome and the "thought of it" was indeed caring, but as I watched the clay figure (yuck) bobble around, the senselessness of what it was doing reminded me of the anti-Christian position so ubiquitous, as to be as laughable.
You derision is noted.
AlAyeti wrote: And in the complete majority of cases where Christian missionaries are murdered, they died unarmed and innocent of any crime.
If the laws of the country prohibit prosletyzing then that ain't true is it. Of course - the punishment far out weighs the crime. That can happen even in 'civilized' societies'
AlAyeti wrote:
AlAyeti wrote: AlAy
eti wrote:

Narcissism? I'm am not a homosexual.

Do you understand what is actually meant by narcissism?

And why do you assocaiate it with homosexuality? Your prejudice is showing again Al.
You do know the story don't you? It is the reflection of the human body that should provide the empiricism necessary to accurately describe sex acts, the what and where.
You clearly don't, but as that is off-topic I have clarified it for you here
AlAyeti wrote: But, I'm sure that the homosexual activists will picket and harrass that word out of psychiatry as well.
Sorry Al but narcissim has nothing directly to do with homosexuality and visa versa.

You jump at every opportunity to tub thump don't you - even when it is displays your ignorance.
"Whatever you are totally ignorant of, assert to be the explanation of everything else"

William James quoting Dr. Hodgson

"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."

Nisargadatta Maharaj

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Post #417

Post by AlAyeti »

AlAyeti wrote:

I'm a freethinker and a skeptic, unless I put my hands on the pictures I have a hard time believing just anything someone says.

Share with is the pictures of the risen Christ. We have been asking for evidence - your 10 x 8 glossies should nail it.
Discovery/Times channel did just this a few days ago. Literally. But, I'm sorry to tell you this, but the camera was not invented yet in first century Palestine. There are plenty of paintings by some very good guessers.

AlAyeti wrote:

You know . . ., a co-worker ( a buddhist ) gave me a bobblehead gift. The gift was awesome and the "thought of it" was indeed caring, but as I watched the clay figure (yuck) bobble around, the senselessness of what it was doing reminded me of the anti-Christian position so ubiquitous, as to be as laughable.

You derision is noted.
How does that school yard saying go? "You can dish it out, but, you can't take it?"

Of course you always stump me on that "Who made God," question. Sorry that I haven't closed my mind to contemplate the answer. I know it's frustrating dealing with a freethinker. A real one.
AlAyeti wrote:

And in the complete majority of cases where Christian missionaries are murdered, they died unarmed and innocent of any crime.

If the laws of the country prohibit prosletyzing then that ain't true is it. Of course - the punishment far out weighs the crime. That can happen even in 'civilized' societies'
So much for my being paranoid. I appreciate the lift out of the hole dug for me by so many closed minds.


[
quote="AlAyeti"]
AlAyeti wrote:

AlAyQuote:
eti wrote:

Narcissism? I'm am not a homosexual.

Do you understand what is actually meant by narcissism?

And why do you assocaiate it with homosexuality? Your prejudice is showing again Al.


Predjudice? Wrong word again Bernee. I "learned" about human anatomy in science class. It erased any preconceived notions I may have had about body orifices being misused.

You do know the story don't you? It is the reflection of the human body that should provide the empiricism necessary to accurately describe sex acts, the what and where.

You clearly don't, but as that is off-topic I have clarified it for you here
Square pegs can only be forced into round holes and that is as far as I'm going to go with sexual deviant behavior. I'm sure you can do the math.
AlAyeti wrote:

But, I'm sure that the homosexual activists will picket and harrass that word out of psychiatry as well.

Sorry Al but narcissim has nothing directly to do with homosexuality and visa versa.

You jump at every opportunity to tub thump don't you - even when it is displays your ignorance.
I am confident that my points are backed up by the empiricism I would rather NOT have to presnet. Ignorance is not present in my facts.

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Facts are NOT Equal to Truth/Meaning

Post #418

Post by melikio »

Ignorance is not present in my facts.
Still, it is FACTUAL and realistic enough, that hatred, ignorance and stupidity can be expressed and proclaimed using those very things ("facts").

I know I've seen ALL the negatives of human nature, expressed in very smart and seemingly nice ways; countless times I've seen this (especially in politics).
The manner in which some people use statistics comes to mind, almost immediately.

Facts are NOT (necessarily) Equal to Truth, Good Reasoning, Meaning, Purpose or Compassion.

-Mel-
"It is better to BE more like Jesus and assume to speak less for God." -MA-

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Post #419

Post by bernee51 »

AlAyeti wrote: There are plenty of paintings by some very good guessers.
A lot of those paintings look very 'caucasian'. Given that Jesus was a semite, like the jews and Arabs of today, they didn't guess to well did they?
AlAyeti wrote: How does that school yard saying go? "You can dish it out, but, you can't take it?"
The 'taking it' was in the fact that is was noted and not responded to. Were you a bully at school Al? Or were you bullied?
AlAyeti wrote: Square pegs can only be forced into round holes and that is as far as I'm going to go with sexual deviant behavior. I'm sure you can do the math.
Doesn't change the fact that narcissism per se has nothing to do with homosexuality.
"Whatever you are totally ignorant of, assert to be the explanation of everything else"

William James quoting Dr. Hodgson

"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."

Nisargadatta Maharaj

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Post #420

Post by AlAyeti »

AlAyeti wrote:
There are plenty of paintings by some very good guessers.

A lot of those paintings look very 'caucasian'. Given that Jesus was a semite, like the jews and Arabs of today, they didn't guess to well did they?
I'm a skeptic. I am also very happy with the direction the "search for the historical Jesus" is coming along.
AlAyeti wrote:

How does that school yard saying go? "You can dish it out, but, you can't take it?"

The 'taking it' was in the fact that is was noted and not responded to. Were you a bully at school Al? Or were you bullied?


I was a rock musician and I was an atheist in high school and was indeed as rude to Christians as I have seen here on debatingchristianty.com. You should have seen me in my confirmation classes. The Bobbleheadism you know so well.
AlAyeti wrote:

Square pegs can only be forced into round holes and that is as far as I'm going to go with sexual deviant behavior. I'm sure you can do the math.

Doesn't change the fact that narcissism per se has nothing to do with homosexuality.
Per se? You know I'm chuckling and you know why.

The world of no labels that you want I couldn't agree with more.

Cream rises to the top and pedophiles will be sent to prison. And Psychiatrist will no longer fear having to be sued for "labeling" deviants. They can just sign the commitment papers and go golfing without a crowd of rabble-rousers to harass the sound medical opinion behind recognizing the insane.

Some "cultures" will be down a lot of members.

I wish you could hear my laughter typing that sentence.

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