God in the Constitution

[Rancid Uncle]

God is not mentioned once in the US constitution. Why? Were the framers agnostics or did they just feel it wasn't necessary?

[veritas]

God is not mentioned once in the US constitution. Why? Were the framers agnostics or did they just feel it wasn't necessary?

The primary author of the Constitution, James Madison, was a highly religious individual, and (IIRC) a Theist. Some of the other Founding Fathers were Theists, and some were Deists (in other words, they did not believe in a personal God who was interested in the affairs of creation).

It is possible that Madison, et al, just did not think it was necessary to include the concept of God--they may have been so used to God being the center of life that they never conceived of a time when mention of His name might be a political necessity. However, that's speculation on my part: we simply do not know.

Justin

[juber3]

My opinion is because Madison didn't want to anger the atheist and other people on the Constitution. The Constitution needed a certain number of people to sign it, and if he would of talked about it it could of resulted in something that would not of been signed and we still be owned by the Brits.

[Abs like J']

As I believe many of the quotes I've provided elsewhere on the site show, the founders were concerned most with preserving the liberty of the individual and avoiding what one referred to as the "horrors of spiritual tyranny." Even James Madison himself had a few things to say about the matter of religion and government relations:

• Every new & successful example of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance. --letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822
• And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together. --letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822
• The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries. --letter objecting to the use of government land for churches, 1803
• We hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth "that religion, or the duty which we owe our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence." The religion, then, of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man: and that it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate. --A Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments

I admire also what the great orator Robert G. Ingersoll had to say in his essay, God in the Constitution:

What was the office or purpose of that Constitution? Admitting that all power came from the people, it was necessary, first, that certain means be adopted for the purpose of ascertaining the will of the people, and second, it was proper and convenient to designate certain departments that should exercise certain powers of the Government. There must be the legislative, the judicial and the executive departments. Those who make laws should not execute them. Those who execute laws should not have the power of absolutely determining their meaning or their constitutionality. For these reasons, among others, a Constitution was adopted.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
No human being has brain enough, or knowledge enough, or experience enough, to say whether there is, or is not, a God. Into this darkness Science has not yet carried its torch. No human being has gone beyond the horizon of the natural. As to the existence of the supernatural, one man knows precisely as much, and exactly as little as another. Upon this question, chimpanzees and cardinals, apes and popes, are upon exact equality. The smallest insect discernible only by the most powerful microscope, is as familiar with this subject, as the greatest genius that has been produced by the human race. Governments and laws are for the preservation of rights and the regulation of conduct. One man should not be allowed to interfere with the liberty of another. In the metaphysical world there should be no interference whatever. The same is true in the world of art. Laws cannot regulate what is or is not music, what is or what is not beautiful -- and constitutions cannot definitely settle and determine the perfection of statues, the value of paintings, or the glory and subtlety of thought. In spite of laws and constitutions the brain will think. In every direction consistent with the well-being and peace of society, there should be freedom. No man should be compelled to adopt the theology of another; neither should a minority, however small, be forced to acquiesce in the opinions of a majority, however large.

If there be an infinite Being, he does not need our help -- we need not waste our energies in his defence. It is enough for us to give to every other human being the liberty we claim for ourselves. There may or may not be a Supreme Ruler of the universe -- but we are certain that man exists, and we believe that freedom is the condition of progress; that it is the sunshine of the mental and moral world, and that without it man will go back to the den of savagery, and will become the fit associate of wild and ferocious beasts.

God(s) are not found in the Constitution because the founders sought first and foremost the liberty of the individual, and understood all too well the capacity of theology in government to infringe upon that liberty.

[adherent]

true dat

[cookiesusedunderprotest]

God is not mentioned once in the US constitution.

In Article 7, paragraph 2, the US Constitution's date of adoption by the Constitutional Convention is given as September 17th, and then the year is given relative to two events. One is the independence of the United States. The other is "the [traditional birth] Year of our Lord", which is obviously a reference to Jesus Christ as God (Since He was not a political leader and was not incarnate on earth at the time of writing, how else could he be "our Lord"?). Even if you wish to dismiss this as formality, it is still a reference to God, and I find it interesting that it is seemingly given at least as much weight as the Independence of the US form Great Britain.

Why? Were the framers agnostics or did they just feel it wasn't necessary?

As to why God wasn't otherwise mentioned, I agree mostly with what Justin (veritas) said; I don't think the framers ever conceived that a time would come in this country in which mentioning God could be taboo.

[Corvus]

God is not mentioned once in the US constitution.

In Article 7, paragraph 2, the US Constitution's date of adoption by the Constitutional Convention is given as September 17th, and then the year is given relative to two events. One is the independence of the United States. The other is "the [traditional birth] Year of our Lord", which is obviously a reference to Jesus Christ as God (Since He was not a political leader and was not incarnate on earth at the time of writing, how else could he be "our Lord"?). Even if you wish to dismiss this as formality, it is still a reference to God, and I find it interesting that it is seemingly given at least as much weight as the Independence of the US form Great Britain.

Er, what other form of dating is there in the west? Anno Domini, which means the same thing? Even now I would still use BC and AD to classify years, even though I am sceptical of God's existence, simply because it's the historically accepted way to date years. What other way is there, and why would they have bothered to devise some obscure reference at the end anyway?

It is a formality and has been a formality in most countries. And it's still used as a formality, usually in the shorted form AD.

If they used the word "thursday" does that mean they are accepting the existence of the god Thor as a given? Woden in Wednesday? Saturn in Saturday? If you have used these words also, would I be forced to question your faith?

[cookiesusedunderprotest]

In Article 7, paragraph 2, the US Constitution's date of adoption by the Constitutional Convention is given as September 17th, and then the year is given relative to two events. One is the independence of the United States. The other is "the [traditional birth] Year of our Lord", which is obviously a reference to Jesus Christ as God (Since He was not a political leader and was not incarnate on earth at the time of writing, how else could he be "our Lord"?). Even if you wish to dismiss this as formality, it is still a reference to God, and I find it interesting that it is seemingly given at least as much weight as the Independence of the US form Great Britain.

Er, what other form of dating is there in the west?

Granted, the birth of Jesus (or four to six years after) is the only conventional point of reference for dates in America (though the framers used another point of reference as well). I am not attempting to build a strong argument or even make a strong point here. I am merely trying to raise a consideration, to explore all the angles.

Anno Domini, which means the same thing?

Does it though? Etymologically, yes, but my using the word "Thursday" has completely different implications than my using the term "Thor's day" or "Thor day". Might the same be true for "Year of our Lord" versus "Anno Domini" and even BC and AD?

Though I would hope that the framers gave at least some consideration to ever phrase in the Constitution, perhaps they didn't give a thought to religious significance (or lack thereof) of the phrase in question. If that were the case, however, might that be another piece of evidence that they didn't ever expect the mention of God to be a contentious issue?

[Piper Plexed]

Abs like J' Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:45 pm    Post subject:

God(s) are not found in the Constitution because the founders sought first and foremost the liberty of the individual, and understood all too well the capacity of theology in government to infringe upon that liberty.

I believe is absolutely correct / religious tyranny riddled Europe and many of the founding Fathers greatest concern was to avoid a fate such as their ancestors had suffered. George Washington himself was the descendent of a French Huguenot (Protestant) settler. The Huguenots suffered miserably under French (Roman Catholic) rule. There was a 3 day massacre in Paris, beheadings, all worldly possessions of protestants were looted and confiscated. Protestants were literally ran out of France with only the clothes on their backs.

http://www.geocities.com/hugenoteblad/hist-hug.htm

A general edict which encouraged the extermination of the Huguenots was issued on January 29th, 1536 in France. On March 1st, 1562 some 1200 Huguenots were slain at Vassy, France. This ignited the the Wars of Religion which would rip apart, devastate, and bankrupt France for the next three decades.

During the infamous St Bartholomew Massacre of the night of 23/24 August, 1572 more than 8 000 Huguenots, including Admiral Gaspard de Coligny, Governor of Picardy and leader and spokesman of the Huguenots, were murdered in Paris. It happened during the wedding of Henry of Navarre, a Huguenot, to Marguerite de Valois (daughter of Catherine de Medici), when thousands of Huguenots converged on Paris for the wedding celebrations.


It was Catherine de Medici who persuaded her weakling son Charles IX to order the mass murder, which lasted three days and spread to the countryside. On Sunday morning August 24th, 1572 she personally walked through the streets of Paris to inspect the carnage. Henry of Navarre's life was spared by pretending to support the Roman Catholic faith. In 1593 he made his "perilous leap"and abjured his faith in July 1593, and 5 years later he was the undisputed monarch as King Henry IV (le bon Henri, the good Henry) of France.

When the first rumours of the massacre reached the Vatican in Rome on 2 September 1572, pope Gregory XIII was jubilant and wanted bonfires to be lit in Rome. He was persuaded to wait for the official communication; the very morning of the day that he received the confirmed news, the pope held a consistory and announced that "God had been pleased to be merciful"

On 8 September 1572 a procession of thanksgiving took place in Rome, and the pope, in a prayer after mass, thanked God for having "granted the Catholic people a glorious triumph over a perfidious race" (gloriosam de perfidis gentibus populo catholico loetitiam tribuisti).

At the following site is a wealth of information referencing the impact of the Huguenots on our country and our Constitution

http://www.huguenotsocietyofamerica.org ... ml#anchor8

Although deeply religious and proud of their heritage, the Huguenots were not intolerant of the beliefs of others. Their traits of character, their skills, and their beliefs they passed onto their descendants. Henry Laurens of South Carolina, John Jay of New York, and Elias Boudinot of New Jersey, all of Huguenot descent, were three of the seven Presidents of the Continental Congress. Among other prominent persons of Huguenot descent during the Revolution were Gabriel Manigault of South Carolina, who lent the Continental Army over $200,000 to help carry on the war, and Frances Marion, known as the "Swamp Fox."


The Huguenots "carried with them the fixed principle of the supremacy of constitutional law. Liberty of thought; liberty of faith; liberty of worship -- these were the aspirations of the Huguenots. They fostered here the germ of independence, regulated by law, which brought to pass what... we call American democracy."


No less than eleven Presidents of the United States were descendants of Huguenot immigrants; George Washington (in whose home, Mount Vernon, hangs the Key to the Bastille), John Quincy Adams, John Tyler, James Garfield, Theodore Roosevelt, William Howard Taft, Herbert Hoover, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman, George H. W. Bush, and George W. Bush.


It has not been the purpose here to detail the history of Huguenot immigration to the New World, for that has been most adequately done by others, but rather to promote a better understanding of who Huguenots were and the part they and their descendants played in the development of the United States.

I believe the absence of a reference to God in our Constitution was in actuality a priority of our founding Fathers.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--George Santayana

...edited to repair link