Religious Equality in America

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Religious Equality in America

Post #1

Post by perspective »

The following list outlines some of the religious affirmations we encounter in our American lives.
  • "Under god" in the pledge
  • "In god we trust" on our money
  • "God bless our country and this honorable court"
  • Benedictions at public events
  • 10 commandment displays in public buildings
Many people claim that the concept of "Separation of Church and State" is not explicitly written in the Constitution. They claim that the following items are justly displayed and cannot be classified as "laws respecting an establishment" of religion.

I will agree that the affirmations above are not laws respecting an establishment of religion. I will also point out that the exact words "Separation of Church and State" are not written in the Constitution. I will agree that stretching the interpretation of the first amendment to that effect is a bit inexact. But I will not concede that this nation was founded on Christianity. The more important concept of the founding of this nation was that it was founded by people who knew what it was like to be told that their beliefs were invalid, abominable, or otherwise unacceptable. This American society at it's foundation is a free country - free in all basic human rights - but especially free in religious pursuit.

Any who do not agree with this basic assertion, please specify in your argument that you disagree with the basic premise of the debate: that religious freedom is not only the foundation of this country, but ought to be an inalienable right.

Questions to debate:
1. If you were/are on the opposing/conflicting side of the above listed daily affirmations, how would/do you feel? Be objective: If you are a christian, pretend that the pledge declares "One nation, under goddess", and likewise. Explain how these affirmations would make you feel.

2. If you see no injustice in allowing religious references into our governing branches, would you also see no injustice in allowing ALL religious references? Would you see no injustice in paralyzing our government meetings with 13 or 14 benedictions, one for each group who wishes to be recognized? Would you see no injustice in increasing taxes to pay for the additional ink required to print all the extra phrases on our money? Would you see no injustice in using up all the sitting space in the lobby of our courthouses for the display of religious statues?

3. Those of you who are offended by the request to remove such affirmations from our daily lives, explain why you view the requests as direct attacks against your faith. If you do, in fact, see the requests as attacks against your faith.


This is not the place to debate why the above mentioned affirmations deserve to be included. If you disagree with the basic premise of the debate, state that you disagree and please start a new topic to debate why you disagree. This thread assumes that you agree that people should be free to choose to follow whichever religion they wish. Again: basic premise of the debate: religious freedom ought to be an inalienable right. This is also not the place to debate whether or not the above affirmations infringe on the inalienable rights of others to practice their religious freedom. Stick to the exact questions or else post a disagreement with the basic premise and post a link to a new thread where you would like to debate the premise.

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Re: this country was not founded on christianity

Post #11

Post by otseng »

perspective wrote:It seems that you are trying to debate whether this country was founded on Christianity. Let's take that debate elsewhere. This thread is mostly interested in the answers to the questions regarding how Christians would feel if they were the minority. I know we could go on and on about whether or not the country was founded on Christianity - so it's better to keep the threads organized and do it elsewhere.
You're right, sorry for straying.

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Post #12

Post by adherent »

Well, christians are the minority in China. And from the mission teams sent from my church to China, they are even more zealous than maybe Billy Graham. For them, going to church is a rather difficult ordeal as christianity is banned in China. Christianity is also on rise in China.
Ok, what I'm trying to say is that even if we did separate church from state, It should not effect christians. If christianity were the minority, it would provide more venues for us to shine. Hm... I guess the church and state has already come a great way from being somewhat pro-christian to this new age thing. It probably will split with all the lobying for it and pressure from activists.

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Re: Religious Equality in America

Post #13

Post by Chancellor »

perspective wrote:The following list outlines some of the religious affirmations we encounter in our American lives.
  • "Under god" in the pledge
  • "In god we trust" on our money
  • "God bless our country and this honorable court"
  • Benedictions at public events
  • 10 commandment displays in public buildings
Many people claim that the concept of "Separation of Church and State" is not explicitly written in the Constitution. They claim that the following items are justly displayed and cannot be classified as "laws respecting an establishment" of religion.

I will agree that the affirmations above are not laws respecting an establishment of religion. I will also point out that the exact words "Separation of Church and State" are not written in the Constitution. I will agree that stretching the interpretation of the first amendment to that effect is a bit inexact. But I will not concede that this nation was founded on Christianity. The more important concept of the founding of this nation was that it was founded by people who knew what it was like to be told that their beliefs were invalid, abominable, or otherwise unacceptable. This American society at it's foundation is a free country - free in all basic human rights - but especially free in religious pursuit.

Any who do not agree with this basic assertion, please specify in your argument that you disagree with the basic premise of the debate: that religious freedom is not only the foundation of this country, but ought to be an inalienable right.

Questions to debate:
1. If you were/are on the opposing/conflicting side of the above listed daily affirmations, how would/do you feel? Be objective: If you are a christian, pretend that the pledge declares "One nation, under goddess", and likewise. Explain how these affirmations would make you feel.

2. If you see no injustice in allowing religious references into our governing branches, would you also see no injustice in allowing ALL religious references? Would you see no injustice in paralyzing our government meetings with 13 or 14 benedictions, one for each group who wishes to be recognized? Would you see no injustice in increasing taxes to pay for the additional ink required to print all the extra phrases on our money? Would you see no injustice in using up all the sitting space in the lobby of our courthouses for the display of religious statues?

3. Those of you who are offended by the request to remove such affirmations from our daily lives, explain why you view the requests as direct attacks against your faith. If you do, in fact, see the requests as attacks against your faith.


This is not the place to debate why the above mentioned affirmations deserve to be included. If you disagree with the basic premise of the debate, state that you disagree and please start a new topic to debate why you disagree. This thread assumes that you agree that people should be free to choose to follow whichever religion they wish. Again: basic premise of the debate: religious freedom ought to be an inalienable right. This is also not the place to debate whether or not the above affirmations infringe on the inalienable rights of others to practice their religious freedom. Stick to the exact questions or else post a disagreement with the basic premise and post a link to a new thread where you would like to debate the premise.
There is nothing even remotely Christian in the Constitution or in the form of government that it established. I think that two of the things you listed, [*]"Under god" in the pledge and [*]"In god we trust" on our money, do have the effect of establishing a national religion. By pledging that the nation is "under God," one is saying that the nation has been placed under God's authority and, as such, is accountable to Him. By saying "In God we trust," the government is placing its trust in God and this, effectively, establishes a national religion -- particularly since it has always been understood that "God" refers to the Christian God. Since there is nothing Christian about the Constitution or the government it established, there is no reason to display the 10 Commandments or to use the Bible in the swearing of oaths. If individuals in the government want to say things like "God bless this honorable court" (or Buddah or Allah or Vishnu or the goddess...) or offer prayers or benedictions at public events, fine -- as long as the person saying "God bless this honorable court" (or Buddah or Allah or Vishnu or the goddess...) or giving the prayer or benediction is not mandated to do so, and as long as no one is criticized for choosing not to participate in such prayers or benedictions (merely being present when these prayers or benedictions are said does not constitute participation: if you don't like seeing other people exercise religious faith, get over it: the Constitution doesn't give you the right to freedom from religion).

On the other hand, the First Amendment does not establish a separation of church and state. Rather, it simply prohibits Congress from passing laws (such as the change to the pledge back in the 1950s) establishing a national religion or prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Notice, of course, that the amendment says "the free exercise" OF religion and not "freedom FROM religion." This means exactly what it says: that religion may be freely exercised without any interference whatsoever. Now, of course, the secularists and their judicial activist friends in the courts are trying to prohibit the free exercise of religion and are trying to ensure that only secularists have a voice in the public arena. There is nothing in the Constitution giving rights to "the free exercise of secularism."

Until the hippies and the flower children came along in the 1960s, America was a melting pot and people were expected to conform to generally accepted American norms, including certain religious assumptions. Now, we're being pulled apart at the seams by these idiocies called "diversity" and "political correctness" and I find that offensive. This is America: if you were born here or are a naturalized citizen, then you're an American. I don't give a rat's behind what color your skin is or where your ancestors came from and I expect you to leave your culture and language back in the old country when you come here. If you don't like the fact that the generally accepted American norms have religious undertones, too bad: the Constitution guarantees the free exercise of religion, not freedom from religion. In regard to religion, the Constitution simply says to Congress, "Hands off!"

The Constitution is to be taken literally, not stretched out of all proportion. There is no freedom from religion. There is no right to privacy. There is no right to murder your unborn children. Corporations do not have the rights of individual citizens. Virtual child pornography is not free speech. Campaign contributions are not free speech. The media does not have the right to give aid and comfort to the enemy...but, I digress.

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Post #14

Post by Corvus »

On the other hand, the First Amendment does not establish a separation of church and state. Rather, it simply prohibits Congress from passing laws (such as the change to the pledge back in the 1950s) establishing a national religion or prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Notice, of course, that the amendment says "the free exercise" OF religion and not "freedom FROM religion." This means exactly what it says: that religion may be freely exercised without any interference whatsoever. Now, of course, the secularists and their judicial activist friends in the courts are trying to prohibit the free exercise of religion and are trying to ensure that only secularists have a voice in the public arena.
You seem rather bitter about this. Where have "secularists" and "judicial activist friends" prohibited the free exercise of religion in America? I have not seen any indication that your right to practice your religion is in any way curtailed. I would like to see some evidence.
There is nothing in the Constitution giving rights to "the free exercise of secularism."
Freedom of speech and expression does seem to suggest they can freely exercise whatever they wish. Or religion, if you want to consider it one - although it's more of an ideology.
Until the hippies and the flower children came along in the 1960s, America was a melting pot and people were expected to conform to generally accepted American norms, including certain religious assumptions. Now, we're being pulled apart at the seams by these idiocies called "diversity" and "political correctness" and I find that offensive
Before the 1960s, black men couldn't enter a white establishment either. I find that offensive also.
This is America: if you were born here or are a naturalized citizen, then you're an American. I don't give a rat's behind what color your skin is or where your ancestors came from and I expect you to leave your culture and language back in the old country when you come here.
This is one of the more xenophobic things that I have read from an American. Although I do expect a person to learn the language of the country they aer travelling to, a person has a right to take their culture and keep their former language, not abandon all their individuality in the hopes of conforming to some ridiculous ideal, and compelled to fly an American flag in their home, drive SUVs and eat "freedom fries". Cultures change over time. We are obviously not the same culture that we once were, and in most cases, we have rid ourselves the more troubling elements of our culture - such as slavery and racial inequality. But if no harm comes from it, there is nothing wrong with some cultural diversity, and I see no reason to inhibit the progress of culture. The introduction of other cultures can only improve a culture, and improve cultural awareness - which so far has failed Americans execrably in their foreign relations.

How is diversity harming you? How does insularity not harm you?
If you don't like the fact that the generally accepted American norms have religious undertones, too bad: the Constitution guarantees the free exercise of religion, not freedom from religion. In regard to religion, the Constitution simply says to Congress, "Hands off!"
What you are saying is; since those religious undertones have always been there, they should always been there. But if one would like to introduce another religious undertone, one would be forbidden by the constitution because it prevents from making any laws either way? Perhaps this is because I am an Australian citizen, but I find this bizarre. That congress should not be able to make laws either way sort of implies there was some form of neutrality to begin with.
There is no freedom from religion.
Granted.
There is no right to privacy.
The right to privacy is an implied right.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


This precisely worded passage seems to make a pretty strong argument that the founders wanted for its citizens to have some privacy from the government - if not from other citizen.
There is no right to murder your unborn children.
Unborn children to not have rights - as citizens or otherwise. I am not suggesting that they should not, but that the constitution does not. This is obviously something where the constitution should not be taken as gospel.
The media does not have the right to give aid and comfort to the enemy...but, I digress.
I'm not exactly sure what this means. Since the media does no physically quarter troops, you are probably arguing something contrary to Amendment I,

Congress shall make no law.....abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press.
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Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.'</i>
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Post #15

Post by Chancellor »

Corvus wrote:
On the other hand, the First Amendment does not establish a separation of church and state. Rather, it simply prohibits Congress from passing laws (such as the change to the pledge back in the 1950s) establishing a national religion or prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Notice, of course, that the amendment says "the free exercise" OF religion and not "freedom FROM religion." This means exactly what it says: that religion may be freely exercised without any interference whatsoever. Now, of course, the secularists and their judicial activist friends in the courts are trying to prohibit the free exercise of religion and are trying to ensure that only secularists have a voice in the public arena.
You seem rather bitter about this. Where have "secularists" and "judicial activist friends" prohibited the free exercise of religion in America? I have not seen any indication that your right to practice your religion is in any way curtailed. I would like to see some evidence.
There is nothing in the Constitution giving rights to "the free exercise of secularism."
Freedom of speech and expression does seem to suggest they can freely exercise whatever they wish. Or religion, if you want to consider it one - although it's more of an ideology.
Until the hippies and the flower children came along in the 1960s, America was a melting pot and people were expected to conform to generally accepted American norms, including certain religious assumptions. Now, we're being pulled apart at the seams by these idiocies called "diversity" and "political correctness" and I find that offensive
Before the 1960s, black men couldn't enter a white establishment either. I find that offensive also.
This is America: if you were born here or are a naturalized citizen, then you're an American. I don't give a rat's behind what color your skin is or where your ancestors came from and I expect you to leave your culture and language back in the old country when you come here.
This is one of the more xenophobic things that I have read from an American. Although I do expect a person to learn the language of the country they aer travelling to, a person has a right to take their culture and keep their former language, not abandon all their individuality in the hopes of conforming to some ridiculous ideal, and compelled to fly an American flag in their home, drive SUVs and eat "freedom fries". Cultures change over time. We are obviously not the same culture that we once were, and in most cases, we have rid ourselves the more troubling elements of our culture - such as slavery and racial inequality. But if no harm comes from it, there is nothing wrong with some cultural diversity, and I see no reason to inhibit the progress of culture. The introduction of other cultures can only improve a culture, and improve cultural awareness - which so far has failed Americans execrably in their foreign relations.

How is diversity harming you? How does insularity not harm you?
If you don't like the fact that the generally accepted American norms have religious undertones, too bad: the Constitution guarantees the free exercise of religion, not freedom from religion. In regard to religion, the Constitution simply says to Congress, "Hands off!"
What you are saying is; since those religious undertones have always been there, they should always been there. But if one would like to introduce another religious undertone, one would be forbidden by the constitution because it prevents from making any laws either way? Perhaps this is because I am an Australian citizen, but I find this bizarre. That congress should not be able to make laws either way sort of implies there was some form of neutrality to begin with.
There is no freedom from religion.
Granted.
There is no right to privacy.
The right to privacy is an implied right.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


This precisely worded passage seems to make a pretty strong argument that the founders wanted for its citizens to have some privacy from the government - if not from other citizen.
There is no right to murder your unborn children.
Unborn children to not have rights - as citizens or otherwise. I am not suggesting that they should not, but that the constitution does not. This is obviously something where the constitution should not be taken as gospel.
The media does not have the right to give aid and comfort to the enemy...but, I digress.
I'm not exactly sure what this means. Since the media does no physically quarter troops, you are probably arguing something contrary to Amendment I,

Congress shall make no law.....abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press.
Not bitter, disgusted. In some public schools, students are prohibited from wearing religious symbols or t-shirts with religious messages while other students are allowed to wear anti-religious t-shirts. Students in some schools are being force-fed the gay rights agenda without their parents' permission (such as schools in California where they forced elementary school students to watch a sexually-suggestive gay-themed play). Secularists are trying to keep religious expression out of the public arena to the point where they even object to menorahs and manger scenes during Chanukkah and Christmas. Children in some schools aren't allowed to sing Christmas carols (or even call the holiday Christmas). "Diversity" is applied only to those who agree with the leftist, feminist, and homosexual agendas. Some colleges are denying Christians and conservatives (the two groups are not the same) the same right of having campus groups that liberal, feminist and homosexual groups have. Judicial activists have determined that a student who wants to receive public money for college can't pursue a degree program that leads to certain occupations just because those occupations happen to be religious -- this discriminates against religious people. Judicial activists decided that women have the right to murder their unborn children, thereby denying these humans (unborn children) the right to life. Judicial activists have decided that virtual child pornography is free speech. Again, the Constitution guarantees the free exercise of religion, not freedom from religion.

There is no "seems to suggest" in the Constitution, except in the minds of judical activists who are legislating from the bench. If secularists want the right to free expression then they have to allow non-secularists those same rights instead of fighting to eliminate all public expression of religion.

One of the biggest problems in America is the fact that we no longer seem to have a common, American, culture. Call it xenophobic if you want but Americans are Americans and not hyphenated hybrids. Martin Luther King, Jr. worked toward a color-blind society where a person is not judged by the color of his skin but by the content of his character but diversity prevents that society from coming about and that's why I'm so insistent on a common American identity: diversity is a nail in America's coffin. I don't hear blacks in Canada calling themselves "African-Canadian" or Asians in Britain calling themselves "Asian-British." It's only been since the hippies and flower children (who are now running many of the institutions they tried to overthrow) that there has been this rejection of a common, American identity. And, yes, I find that offensive. Were there things before the 1960s that needed to be changed so that all Americans could have the same rights (things that were changed in the 1964 Civil Rights Act)? Absolutely, but there were other things that should never have been changed and I blame the secularists for those changes. Ever since children were told they could no longer pray in school (which went beyond simply saying the state could not mandate prayer), civil behavior has been replaced with drugs, guns, and metal detectors. We went from a culture where there were absolute standards of right and wrong to a culture where everyone is responsible for our chosen behavior except us -- and I blame the secularists for this because these are direct consequences of removing free religious expression from the public square.

Yes, I'm saying that since there have always been religious undertones that these undertones are an integral part of our American identity. I'm not saying America has ever been a Christian nation or that it was founded on Christian principles but I am saying that the current secularist attempts to remove all vestiges of religion from the public arena is an assault on one of the bedrock values of American society: the absolute right to unfettered religious exercise.

The fourth amendment does not imply a right to privacy, despite what the judicial activists have claimed. It simply prohibits the unreasonable search and seizure of citizens and their property -- particularly by the government (some of the amendments were specifically written to protect the citizens from their government). The amendment was precisely worded and whenever the courts stray from the exact wording of the text, they engage in judicial activism.

By the media giving aid and comfort to the enemy (which means more than just quartering troops), I mean that their reporting is slanted in such a way as to support the enemy cause. Isn't it interesting that the media is making such a fuss about the illegal torture of Iraqi prisoners, blowing things way out of proportion and interfering with the proper investigation of this criminal activity, while giving very little attention to the beheading of the American civilian and almost no attention to the discovery of sarin and mustard gases in Iraq (some of the weapons of mass destruction about which the media continually claims the Bush administration lied). Isn't it interesting that the media continually reports all the death and destruction in Iraq but refuses to report the good things that Americans are doing there (building schools and hospitals, restoring infrastructure, attempting to train local law enforcement, etc.) -- the nature of their reporting gives aid and comfor to the enemy and, no, freedom of the press does not include the right to give aid and comfort to the enemy.

No, I'm not bitter. Thoroughly disgusted, yes; but not bitter.

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Post #16

Post by perspective »

Chancellor wrote: Students in some schools are being force-fed the gay rights agenda without their parents' permission (such as schools in California where they forced elementary school students to watch a sexually-suggestive gay-themed play).
Everyone in America should be force-fed the concept of respecting the rights of other Americans - gay, black, female, or otherwise. Gay rights agendas promote equal rights. I don't see why parental permission would be needed to teach children that all Americans deserve equal rights, even if they come from a different culture or believe in a different god. This is something that all Americans should have to learn again and again and again - just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean they deserve less than you do. If you were the one not receiving equal rights, you'd want all Americans being taught in school the basic concept of equal respect too.
Chancellor wrote: Children in some schools aren't allowed to sing Christmas carols (or even call the holiday Christmas).
This mostly comes about because of Christians who object to their children singing Hanukkah songs during the holidays. If you would not want your child celebrating the religious holidays of other religions, why would you expect children of other religions to celebrate your holidays? What if only one or two Christian parents objected to celebrating all religious holidays? What if we took time to sing praise to all gods during their religious holidays throughout the year? We'd have to extend the school year. Surely you don't advocate that only one particular religion get special recognition.
Chancellor wrote: "Diversity" is applied only to those who agree with the leftist, feminist, and homosexual agendas. Some colleges are denying Christians and conservatives (the two groups are not the same) the same right of having campus groups that liberal, feminist and homosexual groups have.
Please provide links to reference this occurence. I'd be interested in reading the circumstances surrounding the situation.
Chancellor wrote: Judicial activists have determined that a student who wants to receive public money for college can't pursue a degree program that leads to certain occupations just because those occupations happen to be religious -- this discriminates against religious people.
The public money comes from tax payers. The tax payers elected officials that enacted these rules:
CNN.com wrote: Washington is one of 14 states that have so-called "Blaine amendments," which were added to state constitutions a century ago to stop what was perceived as Catholic influence in public schools.

About 37 states, including Washington, have broader laws prohibiting spending tax dollars on religious training.
link here.
Taking tax dollars and giving them to a religious community is like taxing people for the sake of establishing a national religion. Some students might not decide to major in their religion because their religion could not provide a viable way to make a living through service, but that does not mean that they should be disenfranchised by other students whose religion does provide a viable way to make a living through service.
Chancellor wrote: Judicial activists decided that women have the right to murder their unborn children, thereby denying these humans (unborn children) the right to life.
This is all a matter of opinion. You have every right to believe that cluster of cells that cannot live outside the womb is an unborn child, but not everyone sees it that way.
Chancellor wrote: Judicial activists have decided that virtual child pornography is free speech. Again, the Constitution guarantees the free exercise of religion, not freedom from religion.
Free exercise of religion as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others to believe as THEY wish. For instance, homosexual christians who get married in their churches. Anti-gay marriage advocates would make their religious practice unconstitutional. They would force their own religious beliefs on others. That is the type of religion that we do procure freedom from.
Chancellor wrote: One of the biggest problems in America is the fact that we no longer seem to have a common, American, culture.
We never did. This has always been a melting pot.
Chancellor wrote: but diversity prevents that society from coming about
How does diversity prevent that society (where people are judged by their character and not their skin or accent) I'd contend that only bigotry, intolerance, and prejudice prevent that society from coming about.
Chancellor wrote: and that's why I'm so insistent on a common American identity: diversity is a nail in America's coffin.
Please provide some background on this statement. Is there logical reasoning behind it? Or is this just an opinion?
Chancellor wrote: Ever since children were told they could no longer pray in school (which went beyond simply saying the state could not mandate prayer), civil behavior has been replaced with drugs, guns, and metal detectors.
Almost certainly, this statement suffers from post hoc causal fallacy - a common flaw in logic. You assume that A causes B. I doubt you can provide sufficient evidence to support your theory, but nevertheless, I will ask for any evidence you can provide to support your implication that the lack of prayer causes drug and violence problems.
Chancellor wrote: We went from a culture where there were absolute standards of right and wrong to a culture where everyone is responsible for our chosen behavior except us -- and I blame the secularists for this because these are direct consequences of removing free religious expression from the public square.
What are these direct consequences? I suppose we should start a new thread on this, but please let's do.
Chancellor wrote: I am saying that the current secularist attempts to remove all vestiges of religion from the public arena is an assault on one of the bedrock values of American society: the absolute right to unfettered religious exercise.
I see this from a different perspective. The changes (that mostly came in the mid 1900s) were direct assaults against those who believe in something other than the masculine monotheistic religions. The addition of "In God We Trust", "One Nation, under God", etc etc, were direct assaults on the bedrock values of American society: the absolute right to unfettered religious exercise, and the first amendment that states 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...'


edited: spelling

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Post #17

Post by Corvus »

Not bitter, disgusted. In some public schools, students are prohibited from wearing religious symbols or t-shirts with religious messages while other students are allowed to wear anti-religious t-shirts.


I would like to see some proof of this.
Students in some schools are being force-fed the gay rights agenda without their parents' permission (such as schools in California where they forced elementary school students to watch a sexually-suggestive gay-themed play).


I doubt they were "forced" to watch and, even so, your description reveals too few details on this play to judge it.
Secularists are trying to keep religious expression out of the public arena to the point where they even object to menorahs and manger scenes during Chanukkah and Christmas.
In a republican democracy, they may object all they want.
Children in some schools aren't allowed to sing Christmas carols (or even call the holiday Christmas).


I would like to see some evidence of this.
"Diversity" is applied only to those who agree with the leftist, feminist, and homosexual agendas. Some colleges are denying Christians and conservatives (the two groups are not the same) the same right of having campus groups that liberal, feminist and homosexual groups have.


Again, I would like to see some evidence of this.
Judicial activists have determined that a student who wants to receive public money for college can't pursue a degree program that leads to certain occupations just because those occupations happen to be religious -- this discriminates against religious people.
If the government endorses a candidate for religion it is no different from encouraging a national religion. Your "certain occupations" probably means minsiters and priests, and the government has decided not to give grants so that other religions are not discriminated against. I doubt the colleges also offer courses on how to be the leader of a coven or a druid.
Judicial activists decided that women have the right to murder their unborn children, thereby denying these humans (unborn children) the right to life.
An opinion, as Perspective states.
Judicial activists have decided that virtual child pornography is free speech.
This has nothing to do with the topic, but I would still be interested in seeing some proof.
Again, the Constitution guarantees the free exercise of religion, not freedom from religion.
As you keep repeating. Your Constitution outlines the powers of your government. The Bill of Rights, from what I understand, outlines what the government cannot do. I fail to see why you keep repeating this, since the government is not the one at fault here for making laws in favour of freedom from religion.
There is no "seems to suggest" in the Constitution, except in the minds of judical activists who are legislating from the bench. If secularists want the right to free expression then they have to allow non-secularists those same rights instead of fighting to eliminate all public expression of religion.
I will refrain from commenting on this until I see some proof behind thes allegations.
One of the biggest problems in America is the fact that we no longer seem to have a common, American, culture. Call it xenophobic if you want but Americans are Americans and not hyphenated hybrids. Martin Luther King, Jr. worked toward a color-blind society where a person is not judged by the color of his skin but by the content of his character but diversity prevents that society from coming about and that's why I'm so insistent on a common American identity: diversity is a nail in America's coffin. I don't hear blacks in Canada calling themselves "African-Canadian" or Asians in Britain calling themselves "Asian-British." It's only been since the hippies and flower children (who are now running many of the institutions they tried to overthrow) that there has been this rejection of a common, American identity. And, yes, I find that offensive.
Go back to where you wrote of Martin Luther King. Although you are saying a person should not be judged by the colour of his skin, you are saying that a person should be judged on how different they are from your own culture. You are saying that since they are not part of some homogenous culture, you cannot identify with them, so you cannot accept - or even tolerate - them. This is no worse than judging people by the colour of their skin. You are judging people by the colour of their culture and still ignoring the content of their character.

Having a color-blind and accepting society does not mean you can only accept them if their ideas resemble your own.
Ever since children were told they could no longer pray in school...
I have never heard that children are not allowed to pray in school if it does not disrupt the class. Please provide proof for your claims. You have gone from saying "some schools.." to the absolute "children could no longer pray in school". From what I understand, any school seeking to put in place a "no praying in school outside of classrooms" rule is usually challenged and always loses.
... (which went beyond simply saying the state could not mandate prayer), civil behavior has been replaced with drugs, guns, and metal detectors.
I fail to see the correlation. Believing for a moment that what you said is true, how does preventing outward displays of religious expression lead to "drugs, guns and metal detectors"?
We went from a culture where there were absolute standards of right and wrong to a culture where everyone is responsible for our chosen behavior except us -- and I blame the secularists for this because these are direct consequences of removing free religious expression from the public square.
I blame a culture that has been taught to venerate money, but I admit I have no proof of my claim, but, when you say "direct consequences" it's suggested you have some sort of proof for this.
Yes, I'm saying that since there have always been religious undertones that these undertones are an integral part of our American identity.
What you are arguing is tradition for the sake of tradition. You give no reason for why this identity is inherently better than any other future identity except that you yourself are adherent to this identity.
The fourth amendment does not imply a right to privacy, despite what the judicial activists have claimed. It simply prohibits the unreasonable search and seizure of citizens and their property -- particularly by the government (some of the amendments were specifically written to protect the citizens from their government). The amendment was precisely worded and whenever the courts stray from the exact wording of the text, they engage in judicial activism.
That a search would be "unreasonable" suggests that the citizen has some sort of right to privacy that can only be counteracted with a reasonable excuse. Why would anyone object to a search if they had nothing to hide?
By the media giving aid and comfort to the enemy (which means more than just quartering troops), I mean that their reporting is slanted in such a way as to support the enemy cause. Isn't it interesting that the media is making such a fuss about the illegal torture of Iraqi prisoners, blowing things way out of proportion and interfering with the proper investigation of this criminal activity, while giving very little attention to the beheading of the American civilian and almost no attention to the discovery of sarin and mustard gases in Iraq (some of the weapons of mass destruction about which the media continually claims the Bush administration lied). Isn't it interesting that the media continually reports all the death and destruction in Iraq but refuses to report the good things that Americans are doing there (building schools and hospitals, restoring infrastructure, attempting to train local law enforcement, etc.) -- the nature of their reporting gives aid and comfor to the enemy and, no, freedom of the press does not include the right to give aid and comfort to the enemy.
You just argued for a literal interpretation of the constiution, yet when it comes to literally interpreting the freedom of the press, you argue against it. The 1st amendment does not provide a stipulation on the freedom of press. The media can do as it likes.

As for the unfortunate heading of Monsieur Berg plenty of attention has been called to it by the media, and although horrific, it is not nearly as surprising as the abuse from US troops. It is not, as we say, a "scandal", and scandals are more likely to sell newspapers. There is also very little investigation or further details we do not already know about the beheading.

Second, sarin and mustard gas in an unmarked shell so old that its destructive properties are neutralised is hardly what I would call a story. The administration itself has already stated that it does not qualify for what they were searching for, and David Kay has shrugged it off. Also, the whole goal of finding the WMD was not for some sort of egg hunt - it was because the WMD were supposed to constitute a threat. These clearly do not.

But I digress. As per the rules,

5. Support your arguments with evidence. Do not make blanket statements that are not supportable by logic.

Although a few rogue schools and colleges may be actually doing the things you say - possibly out of ignorance - even your own words do not indicate some widespread push to take freedom of expression from out of the public arena.
<i>'Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.'</i>
-John Keats, Ode on a Grecian Urn.

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