Reasons for Trumps victory

[Elijah John]

Why do you suppose that Donald Trump won the presidency?

Among other reasons, was it because his supporters were racists, misogynist, xenophobic, or otherwise bigoted...?

OR

Could it be that most of us were tired of being called "racist", "misogynist", "xenophobic" or otherwise bigoted for no real reason other than we simply opposed Obama and Clinton.?

Was the race really as simple and simplistic as a contest between tolerance vs bigotry?

[Divine Insight]

I know exactly why Trump won. The electoral college shows precisely why he won.

Why do you suppose that Donald Trump won the presidency?

Among other reasons, was it because his supporters were racists, misogynist, xenophobic, or otherwise bigoted...?

No, because those supporters aren't the ones who put him over the top in the electoral college. If those voters were the only people voting for Trump he would have lost by a landslide as was actually expected.

OR

Could it be that most of us were tired of being called "racist", "misogynist", "xenophobic" or otherwise bigoted for no real reason other than we simply opposed Obama and Clinton.?

If a person wasn't "racist", "misogynist", "xenophobic" or otherwise bigoted they shouldn't have considered those attributes to have been aimed at them. In fact, the very idea that many Trump supporters started wearing T-Shirts or carrying signs saying "Adorable Deplorables" was actually quite disgusting. Don't they reject "racist", "misogynist", "xenophobic" or otherwise bigoted people too? And if so, then why are they acting like these charges apply to them?

~~~~~~

The reason Trump won the election is extremely simple and crystal clear.

It was the disgruntled Blue Collar Workers of OH, PA, WI, MI, NC and VA that voted for Trump overwhelmingly because Trump targeted those disgruntled workers specifically promising them that he will reopen their old coal mines, railroads, steel mills and factories. Something that is NEVER going to happen in any realistic way.

Even if industries should happen to make some sort of economic comeback in the USA, it's not going to be the old-fashioned jobs those people lost. It would be brand new facilities that are far more high-tech, require far more manual labor, and the few people they do high would need to be highly skilled, far more so than these disgruntled blue collar workers.

So no, it's not the "racist", "misogynist", "xenophobic" or otherwise bigoted people who got Trump elected. It was the disgruntled blue collar workers OH, PA, WI, MI, NC and VA who bought into Trump's false promises that he would bring back the jobs they had lost. Those jobs are never coming back. That era is over.

So Trump won the Whitehouse based on absurd promises that can never be kept.

He didn't win because the majority of Americans are "racist", "misogynist", "xenophobic" or otherwise bigoted people. In fact, those people now think that they have WON and so that's some seriously bad news right there.

We're going to see the White Supremacists and White Nationalists acting like they have just been given the GREEN LIGHT of approval by a Trump victory. In fact, we are already seeing this in the social media. People like Steve Bannon, Breitbart News, Alex Jones and InfoWars, etc, are all acting like they have just been vindicated in their "racist", "misogynist", "xenophobic" or otherwise bigoted agendas.

All because blue collar workers in OH, PA, WI, MI, NC and VA fell for Trump's empty promises, and handed Trump the electoral college votes he needed to win the electoral college.

Trust me. No sane Americans want Donald Trump to be in the White House, save for those disgruntled blue collar workers who fell for Trump's empty promises.

That's why America is in this extremely dangerous situation today. All this has done is cause the minority "racist", "misogynist", "xenophobic" or otherwise bigoted Trump supporters to think that their agenda has been given a GREEN LIGHT.

That's NOT why he won. He won because of the empty promises he made to blue collar workers. Those jobs are NEVER coming back. That era has passed.

This is horrible for the USA. It's a global embarrassment. Not to mention how dangerous this can be in potentially throwing the USA backward in time to extreme racial and bigoted unrest.

A lot of people have very good reason to be sorely afraid. Only time will tell how this is going to all unfold. But I'm willing to bet that no coal mines, railroads, or steel mills reopen in those towns where Trump made his promises.

What's far more likely to happen is that "racist", "misogynist", "xenophobic" or otherwise bigoted people will just end up feeling more empowered to openly act on their feelings. This has the potential to get seriously ugly.

Let's hope that doesn't become our new reality in the USA.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]

If a person wasn't "racist", "misogynist", "xenophobic" or otherwise bigoted they shouldn't have considered those attributes to have been aimed at them.

So it shouldn't have played a factor in the decision making process?
Funny, DI, I'm pretty sure in the religious arguments on this site, both you and I have cited as one of our reasons our dislike for Christianity being what Paul says regarding atheists.
Basically, the left spent so much time and effort demonising everyone who wanted to vote Trump (if I could have, I would've voted Trump), that they ended up as hypocrites. If you talk to a left wing journalist, they might describe themselves as being all about tolerance and understanding. However, their actions say otherwise.
Ana Kasparian of the Young Turks vocally called those women who voted for Trump 'f'cking dumb', and this is a woman who professes to be a feminist and all about women's rights!

In fact, the very idea that many Trump supporters started wearing T-Shirts or carrying signs saying "Adorable Deplorables" was actually quite disgusting.

Trump supporters were being called racist/sexist/mysognist even when they weren't wearing such shirts or carrying such signs.

We're going to see the White Supremacists and White Nationalists acting like they have just been given the GREEN LIGHT of approval by a Trump victory. In fact, we are already seeing this in the social media. People like Steve Bannon, Breitbart News, Alex Jones and InfoWars, etc, are all acting like they have just been vindicated in their "racist", "misogynist", "xenophobic" or otherwise bigoted agendas.

What you didn't mention was news of riots by anti-Trump people, calls for his assassination, some prominent Californian businessman saying he's started plans for a Californian secession.
They are the people I am worried about. The people who are so paranoid about a white capitalist patriarchy that doesn't exist that they are willing to start riots because their candidate didn't a democratic election.

Trust me. No sane Americans want Donald Trump to be in the White House, save for those disgruntled blue collar workers who fell for Trump's empty promises.

This is basically the attitude that I despise from the left. You've made the implication that an American (who isn't blue collar) who voted for Trump is insane.
No. Maybe Trump will be a horrible president, we don't know. What I do know is that it is something else entirely to call people who vote for a candidate insane. Maybe...just maybe, they're sane and have their reasons.

That's why America is in this extremely dangerous situation today. All this has done is cause the minority "racist", "misogynist", "xenophobic" or otherwise bigoted Trump supporters to think that their agenda has been given a GREEN LIGHT.

Again, it's the Hilary supporters who are rioting in the streets and have been for the past few years, not your average Trump supporter.

A lot of people have very good reason to be sorely afraid.

I was afraid for a Hilary win. She was promising military action against a nuclear equipped nation. Not a good idea in my books.

What's far more likely to happen is that "racist", "misogynist", "xenophobic" or otherwise bigoted people will just end up feeling more empowered to openly act on their feelings. This has the potential to get seriously ugly.

They've been doing that for years, and quite openly. I've seen people talk down to minorities in the US like it's a crime to not vote for {Insert Candidate Here}. I've seen people demand attacks on white neighbourhoods and be treated like peaceful angels on mainstream media.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 3 by rikuoamero]


"I was afraid for a Hilary win. She was promising military action against a nuclear equipped nation. Not a good idea in my books. "

Now that is insane.

[Divine Insight]

Funny, DI, I'm pretty sure in the religious arguments on this site, both you and I have cited as one of our reasons our dislike for Christianity being what Paul says regarding atheists.

Not just regarding atheists, but anyone who doesn't believe his specific religious paradigm. And yes the Abrahamic Religions are based upon extreme religious bigotry. No question about it. Christianity = extreme religious bigotry by default of its own claims that anyone who doesn't accept it is an evil heathen who has turned from their God. So yes, Christianity is extreme religious bigotry. I wouldn't want Paul as President of the USA either.

Ana Kasparian of the Young Turks vocally called those women who voted for Trump 'f'cking dumb', and this is a woman who professes to be a feminist and all about women's rights!

And I agree with her 100%. Only I don't hold only women accountable for this. Men should have known better than to support Trump as well. What were they thinking?

Why do we let the men off the hook here? Men should be better than Trump too!

[dakoski]

[Replying to Divine Insight]

Yeah I agree with your analysis, pretty much the same arguments were made here in the UK for Brexit - so there was a strong feeling of deja vu when Trump won.

Hopefully the same reaction won't happen in the US, but we had a spike in racial abuse incidents in the UK. Many felt emboldened to open vocalise and act on their prejudices because they thought the Brexit vote had shown the nation thought as they did.

Similarly, the Brexit campaign made many wild promises - like giving all the payments we had made to the EU for healthcare in the UK - which were abandoned immediately after they got the vote. As I say, hopefully that won't happen but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

[bluethread]

As I have said on another thread, if one looks at the precinct map, one sees that the only precincts that Hillary one were in the urban centers. DI is righting that it was rank and file labor that swung to support Trump. Though some of them may have just wanted to change the flavor of the federal government cool-aid they were drinking, many realized that the only thing that the feds were giving them was cool-aid. I hope this latter is the more common reason and that we can beginning moving back from top down progressivism toward bottom up localism.

We can now see what the left really thinks of diversity. True diversity is not in forcing people to walk on egg shells, but in allowing them to walk to where they are more comfortable. If people want forced diversity, they can go to those progressive enclaves nd have at it. If it is really the wave of the future it will act like a magnet and those places will thrive. However, it has become increasingly apparent that those areas can not survive without federal bailouts. That is what caused the rural and blue collar producers of this country to rise up and call for less centralized government. Whether Trump will deliver on that or not is yet to be seen, but that is what I think is what is behind what we saw last Tuesday night.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 5 by Divine Insight]

Not just regarding atheists, but anyone who doesn't believe his specific religious paradigm. And yes the Abrahamic Religions are based upon extreme religious bigotry. No question about it. Christianity = extreme religious bigotry by default of its own claims that anyone who doesn't accept it is an evil heathen who has turned from their God. So yes, Christianity is extreme religious bigotry. I wouldn't want Paul as President of the USA either.

Which is basically one of the reasons I was wary of Hilary. Her supporters, by and large, said that if one isn't a Hilary supporter, then one is automatically {insert evil adjectives here}.
Just like Paul.

And I agree with her 100%.

I notice that you've never identified as a feminist, (god, I hate the fact I'm arguing identity politics now), but what got in my craw about her was her hypocrisy. Here's the clip in question.

Here's a transcript if you don't want to watch it
"I have no respect for women who voted for Trump. Okay. I think so poorly of them and the reason why is because look, I don't think you're a single issue voter. I just think you're dumb. Okay. I think you're f'king dumb. When you vote for somebody who openly treats women like second class citizens, who talks about them as if they're nothing more than pieces of meat, who has been accused of sexually assaulting them, who has been caught on tape talking about groping them, grabbing them by the pussy without consent, yeah you're an idiot. Okay. You're an idiot. You are voting against your best interests, I just, I'm losing my mind tonight because of how stupid the majority of the country is. "
And this rant came after another video from her where she calls those people who put down others as 'sociopaths'.
In my mind, these women Trump voters might have just gotten tired of the holier than thou attitude of Hilary supporters. I can imagine myself as a woman and being majorly turned off supporting who Ana supports. Why would I choose your candidate when all you're doing is calling me dumb, why would I choose your god when all you're doing is saying I have no excuse for not doing so?
Two things DI.
Do not say that you agree with someone 100% unless you've actually heard what they have to say. Ana there talks about grabbing women without consent, which Trump doesn't say - he says they let him (I just rewatched the tape in question to make sure). Maybe they actually do, maybe they actually don't, but Trump didn't say he groped them without consent.
Second - I'm surprised myself that (on this site) I'm agreeing with the Christians and not with my fellow atheists.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 5 by Divine Insight]

Not just regarding atheists, but anyone who doesn't believe his specific religious paradigm. And yes the Abrahamic Religions are based upon extreme religious bigotry. No question about it. Christianity = extreme religious bigotry by default of its own claims that anyone who doesn't accept it is an evil heathen who has turned from their God. So yes, Christianity is extreme religious bigotry. I wouldn't want Paul as President of the USA either.

Which is basically one of the reasons I was wary of Hilary. Her supporters, by and large, said that if one isn't a Hilary supporter, then one is automatically {insert evil adjectives here}.
Just like Paul.

You pointed out in another thread that in the USA we basically have a two party system for all intents and purposes since the other parties typically don't have a chance of actually being in the running.

Therefore many people that you may view as being "Hillary Supporters" may be fully aware of all the problems associated with Hillary. What they are actually expressing is that if a person is actually "Supporting" Trump they are automatically supporting negative values that clearly do not represent the best interest of humanity. And Trump is the cause of this via his very own behavior.

In fact, the people who are protesting against Trump's presidency today aren't even necessarily "Hillary Supporters". They just realize that Trump is a danger to humanity and everything decent.

It's also not just Trump. Just look at the news, Trump is going to be appointing Steve Bannon as the "Chief of Staff" of the USA, or if not that precise position he will definitely be placing Steve Bannon in some high position of the US Government.

The USA has just been handed over to the scum of the Earth.

Never mind Hillary. Hillary was simply the only way we could have been saved from this disaster precisely because of our two-party system. At least Hillary's presidency would have assured that we would have retained decent human beings in the Administration overall.

Trump represents the fall of the USA. Every decent value that the USA has stood for will know go down the drain.

In fact, these protests we're seeing in the street are a direct result of Trump. Period. No one else can be blamed for this. Trump brought this on himself by the way he behaved over the past 18 months as he campaigned.

Trump is the reason that there is violence on our streets right now and the division between Americans is going to do nothing but continue to be amplified as long as Trump is in office. So you might as well get used to a very dangerous and self-divided America. And Trump is the cause of it all.

And I agree with her 100%.

I notice that you've never identified as a feminist, (god, I hate the fact I'm arguing identity politics now), but what got in my craw about her was her hypocrisy. Here's the clip in question.

Here's a transcript if you don't want to watch it
"I have no respect for women who voted for Trump. Okay. I think so poorly of them and the reason why is because look, I don't think you're a single issue voter. I just think you're dumb. Okay. I think you're f'king dumb. When you vote for somebody who openly treats women like second class citizens, who talks about them as if they're nothing more than pieces of meat, who has been accused of sexually assaulting them, who has been caught on tape talking about groping them, grabbing them by the pussy without consent, yeah you're an idiot. Okay. You're an idiot. You are voting against your best interests, I just, I'm losing my mind tonight because of how stupid the majority of the country is. "
And this rant came after another video from her where she calls those people who put down others as 'sociopaths'.
In my mind, these women Trump voters might have just gotten tired of the holier than thou attitude of Hilary supporters.

Ana Kasparian was not a Hillary Supporter. In fact, I'm pretty sure she was a Bernie Supporter. She just happens to realize that between Hillary and Trump there is no question that Trump represents the depths of ignorance and indecency.

I can imagine myself as a woman and being majorly turned off supporting who Ana supports. Why would I choose your candidate when all you're doing is calling me dumb, why would I choose your god when all you're doing is saying I have no excuse for not doing so?

Unlike Paul, Ana Kasparian can point to very good reasons why people who support Trump are "without excuse".

Two things DI.
Do not say that you agree with someone 100% unless you've actually heard what they have to say.

I only meant that I agree 100% with her conclusion that no decent person should be supporting Trump as president of the USA. I don't mean to imply that I agree with 100% of everything Ana Kasparian has to say.

Ana there talks about grabbing women without consent, which Trump doesn't say - he says they let him (I just rewatched the tape in question to make sure). Maybe they actually do, maybe they actually don't, but Trump didn't say he groped them without consent.

I think the context of what Trump has said and done needs to be taken into consideration. Apparently, he views "consent" if the women simply don't take him to court after they have made it clear that they aren't interested in his non-consensual advances.

After all, what is Trump saying? You just grab a woman inappropriately first, and then judge whether or not she has given her consent by her reaction?

The idea that Trump was seeking consent prior to his actions seems to be a very weak defense of what he actually said he does.

And this is only one of the many indecent things Trump has done. He also publicly made fun of a physically disabled reporter by mocking his condition. He dismissed as Judge as being invalid simply because he he has Mexican heritage. He thinks it's "American" to just ban all Muslims simply because there are terrorist groups that happen to use Islam as an excuse for their terror. Should we have banned all Christians based on the behavior of the KKK?

There are just too many things wrong with Trump. It's just just that he grabs women's gentiles without their consent or approval.

Second - I'm surprised myself that (on this site) I'm agreeing with the Christians and not with my fellow atheists.

Well, there you go. Just goes to show how the very existence of Trump can have previously like-minded agreeable people becoming engaged in disagreeing debates.

We wouldn't even be having this conversation if a racist, bigoted, sex pervert hadn't just become the president of the United States.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 9 by Divine Insight]

In fact, the people who are protesting against Trump's presidency today aren't even necessarily "Hillary Supporters".

I'm willing to take a bet on that.

Just look at the news, Trump is going to be appointing Steve Bannon as the "Chief of Staff" of the USA

And? Who's he? A brief Google search reveals him to be a chairman of Breitbart and a former Naval officer...

The USA has just been handed over to the scum of the Earth.

I don't believe this statement because I don't have any information on it, especially from a source I trust. The mainstream media I don't trust on matters to do with Trump - they took comments from him about one woman (Rosie O'Donnell) and made it out like he was calling all women slobs.
Look at how the mainstream media are treating his ten year old son, for god's sake. Type in Barron Trump into Google, and you will see articles making him out to be autistic or some other problem...simply because he was photographed yawning at his father's victory speech, which I need to remind you happened at 3am.

Hillary was simply the only way we could have been saved from this disaster precisely because of our two-party system. At least Hillary's presidency would have assured that we would have retained decent human beings in the Administration overall.

I have to remind you, Hilary was the one promoting war against a nuclear equipped superpower. In my mind, concerns about behaviour with women are small fries compared to the disaster that would have been.

In fact, these protests we're seeing in the street are a direct result of Trump. Period. No one else can be blamed for this. Trump brought this on himself by the way he behaved over the past 18 months as he campaigned.

No, everyone else can be blamed, like those people who are actually rioting. This is a view of humanity that I despise, the removal of agency. Those people who are outside rioting made a choice to do so. When you say they can't be blamed, you are removing their agency, their ability to make choices for themselves.
To me, the ability to make choices is more or less at the core of our being human.
Let me ask you DI - if Hilary had won, and Trump supporters were rioting, would you have said that 'no one else can be blamed'?

Trump is the reason that there is violence on our streets right now

Were Christians who thought they were following the commands of their God during the Crusades not to be held accountable?
If someone is committing violence, the blame always rests on that person. They may be fighting back in self defense (if so, I wouldn't chastise them for it) but I wouldn't say they have no agency in the matter.

Ana Kasparian was not a Hillary Supporter. In fact, I'm pretty sure she was a Bernie Supporter. She just happens to realize that between Hillary and Trump there is no question that Trump represents the depths of ignorance and indecency.

If so, my mistake as to who she supported, but again, I can say the same thing but in reverse. Again, Hilary was the one talking war with Russia.

Unlike Paul, Ana Kasparian can point to very good reasons why people who support Trump are "without excuse".

So that's it? A sweeping declaration of all women Trump voters as being this one negative thing, without bothering to ask them just why?

I only meant that I agree 100% with her conclusion that no decent person should be supporting Trump as president of the USA.

What of myself then? You I've long admired on this site, and still do. Am I now a 'not-decent' person, because of my Trump support?
I'm seeing the personal become political over the last few years, to the point where people have been loudly declaring online that any of their friends or family members who voted Trump should just not be friends any more.

I think the context of what Trump has said and done needs to be taken into consideration. Apparently, he views "consent" if the women simply don't take him to court after they have made it clear that they aren't interested in his non-consensual advances.

Neither you nor I can read Trump's mind. Neither you nor I are following Trump around, seeing him interacting with women first hand.

The idea that Trump was seeking consent prior to his actions seems to be a very weak defense of what he actually said he does.

I'm not defending his actions, I'm attacking the mainstream media's spin on it, by making him out to be a self-admitted serial groper who does this knowingly without consent.

He dismissed as Judge as being invalid simply because he he has Mexican heritage.

This is the first I've heard about this, so I did a little digging. Turns out the judge in question, Gonzalo Curiel, is of Mexican immigrant heritage and also involved in litigation against Trump. Thus, there is a logical cause for concern about a conflict of interest, given Trump's wall promise.
In all, I wouldn't put this off down to racism on Trump's part, but him attempting to win a legal victory by grasping at any straws that he thinks might work.

He thinks it's "American" to just ban all Muslims simply because there are terrorist groups that happen to use Islam as an excuse for their terror.

While his proposal to ban them all is laughably stupid (I can agree with you there), the underlying concern is still valid in my view. Here in Europe, we've got more or less open borders and yet we saw terrible attacks earlier in the year. Angela Merkel's plan of giving a passport to practically anyone who identifies as a refugee didn't prevent the attacks in Nice or Brussels.

Well, there you go. Just goes to show how the very existence of Trump can have previously like-minded agreeable people becoming engaged in disagreeing debates.

Well we had to disagree at some point in time. Might as well be this.