Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

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JehovahsWitness
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Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

Post #1

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Jehovah's Witneses in Russia a facing an imminent ban which would criminalize all of Jehovah's Witnessses in the country as "extremists". Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide are presently conducting a letter writing campaign to protest this injustice.
CLATIFICATION 2020: Since the ban of the Watchtower Society was eventually passed in April 2017 thread is specifically to discuss the actual charges mentioned in the State procesution papers and the subseqent arrests under the specific charges under Article 282.2 (1) of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation (RF Criminal Code) of EXTREMISM in Russia.
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What is your opinion of this move? Should Jehovah's Witnesses be banned from meeting to pray, read their bibles and sing spiritual songs together?

Do you think such a move could be envisioned elsewhere?

If you are non-religious, would you welcome such measures as a move to ultimately eliminate organized religion?



https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by- ... at-of-ban/
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:10 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

Post #161

Post by nobspeople »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:24 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:11 pm
How I 'feel' about another's culture is immaterial to me in this conversation.
If your own opinion is immaterial to you, I'm sure you will understand it being immaterial to others as well. Still, thanks for sharing and have a very pleasant weekend.

JEHOVAHS WITNESS
Your reading skills need work, my friend. I never said my own opinion is immaterial, I said how I feel about another's culture is immaterial.
What you're trying to do is word play, which doesn't work on me.
Yes, how I feel about one's culture is immaterial to this discussion. You should have asked (as I suggested, but you coincidentally missed) what do I THINK. But that, itself, doesn't matter about the question that was asked.
Which I answered.
It appears you don't like that answer. Too bad for you.
:thanks:
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

Post #162

Post by JehovahsWitness »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:29 pm

Your reading skills need work, my friend. I never said my own opinion is immaterial, I said how I feel about another's culture is immaterial.

Okay my bad. M'y response then is....


If your own feelings about another's culture is immaterial to you I'm sure you will understand it being immaterial to others as well. Still, thanks for sharing and have a very pleasant weekend.

JEHOVAHS WITNESS
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Re: Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

Post #163

Post by nobspeople »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:38 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:29 pm

Your reading skills need work, my friend. I never said my own opinion is immaterial, I said how I feel about another's culture is immaterial.

Okay my bad. M'y response then is....


If your own feelings about another's culture is immaterial to you I'm sure you will understand it being immaterial to others as well. Still, thanks for sharing and have a very pleasant weekend.

JEHOVAHS WITNESS

I'm not here to wonder how much someone cares about that. That is unnecessary to my well being.
Unlike others here, it seems.
I was asked what I think
I answered
You don't like it, which is your problem. :ok:
To reiterate (in case you forgot) :
Ban jehovah witnesses, mormonism and scientology immediately.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

Post #164

Post by Tcg »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #161]

Perhaps Russian officials are aware of the actions of JW leadership, such as the ones documented below, and they have decided to protect their children from these abuses:
Leaders of a Jehovah's Witnesses church 'made a 15-year-old girl listen to an audio tape of her own rape for four hours to for her to say it was "consensual"', Utah Supreme Court hears

A 15-year-old girl was allegedly forced to listen to a recording of a man raping her for four hours, by male leaders of a Jehovah’s Witnesses congregation to get her to say the encounter was consensual, the Utah Supreme Court heard this week.

The court heard arguments on Monday in a lawsuit where a woman sued four elders of the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses in Roy, Utah, the religion’s national organization and the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society for intentionally inflicting severe emotional distress upon her.

The woman claims she was 14-years-old when an 18-year-old male, who was also a Jehovah’s Witness, bullied her and began to sexually assault her in December 2007.

She says he raped her several times and provided her congregation leaders a recording of one of those assaults.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... hours.html

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Re: Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

Post #165

Post by JehovahsWitness »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:27 am [Replying to post 1 by JehovahsWitness]

Some extracts from a recent article on the subject
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/worl ... emist.html

Time Report


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I forget up mention that things have degraded considérable since the 2017 ban. With reports of torture and many hundreds of arrêts and détentions including of the elderly, the handicapped and pregnant women.


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Re: Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

Post #166

Post by Purple Knight »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:20 amIf you are non-religious, would you welcome such measures as a move to ultimately eliminate organized religion?
Yes, but. And it's a big but.

They would have to be doing something really, really bad, like eating babies or abusing animals. I would never support any ban on any religion simply because it seems kooky or believes weird things or preaches quite a lot. Most people think that about Jehovah's Witnesses (probably because of the Easter and Christmas thing, which Jehovah's Witnesses actually have some ammunition for) and Scientologists but I can't think how someone goes from that to "Ban them all!"

I do think Kosher Jewry, Halal, and Santeria should be outlawed because their butchering methods are seriously horrific. Things like that have already been outlawed in some countries.

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Re: Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

Post #167

Post by nobspeople »

Purple Knight wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:20 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:20 amIf you are non-religious, would you welcome such measures as a move to ultimately eliminate organized religion?
Yes, but. And it's a big but.

They would have to be doing something really, really bad, like eating babies or abusing animals. I would never support any ban on any religion simply because it seems kooky or believes weird things or preaches quite a lot. Most people think that about Jehovah's Witnesses (probably because of the Easter and Christmas thing, which Jehovah's Witnesses actually have some ammunition for) and Scientologists but I can't think how someone goes from that to "Ban them all!"

I do think Kosher Jewry, Halal, and Santeria should be outlawed because their butchering methods are seriously horrific. Things like that have already been outlawed in some countries.

Would you want them banned if their teachings directly harmed you or your family? Say they used their political and/or financial influence to do this. Or tried to pass off their POVs on to children?
Simply curious as to what point you'd change from 'no' to 'yes'. And there's no right or wrong answer, as you know. Just curious.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

Post #168

Post by Purple Knight »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:15 amWould you want them banned if their teachings directly harmed you or your family?
No. The kind of society I want to live in lets people say whatever nonsense they want, even if it is harmful. It is the responsibility of people to avoid those teachings.
nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:15 amSay they used their political and/or financial influence to do this. Or tried to pass off their POVs on to children?
If my children are being successfully convinced then perhaps what they say has merit. They may make their case and I may make mine. If my children choose the case of the religiosos then I wish them well. I might move away from an area where a nasty church had excessive influence, money, and/or power, however.
nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:15 amSimply curious as to what point you'd change from 'no' to 'yes'. And there's no right or wrong answer, as you know. Just curious.
The point at which they are breaking a law directly (or, in America, the point at which they would be breaking a law, without the special protection of the First Amendment).

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Re: Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

Post #169

Post by Tcg »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:08 am
Some extracts from a recent article on the subject

JW
Here is an even more recent article that documents the moral failures of the JW's leadership which could very well play a part in why Russian authorities want to protect their citizens by keeping JWs out of their country:

Former Jehovah's Witness elders call for mandatory reporting of child sexual abuse

Two ex-members tell independent inquiry the church believes it is ‘answerable only to God’

Two former Jehovah’s Witness elders have called for mandatory reporting of child sexual abuse, saying the organisation believes it is “answerable only to God”.

Duncan Corbett, who was an elder for 18 years, told the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse that the protection of minors and the handling of abuse claims must be taken out of the church’s hands. “Let them deal with the sin and the authorities handle the crime,” he told a hearing in London.

Lloyd Evans, another former elder who now campaigns against religious fundamentalism, said: “This is a group that feels they are answerable only to God … They don’t feel as though they need to yield to any regulations that are imposed on them.”

An anonymous witness had earlier said she had been sexually abused by a “ministerial servant” – the rung below an elder – who led study groups in her congregation and told her repeatedly that she would die in the coming armageddon. The abuse stopped when she was about nine, when the perpetrator, Peter Stewart, went to prison.

The abuse “changed who I became,” she told the hearing. “It took over everything … It literally decimated my life.” She also backed mandatory reporting, saying, “They are not going to change. They are who they are and anything imposed is going to have loopholes, so there has to be some external protection.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... xual-abuse
When former elders and members warn that a group is actually protecting sexual abusers rather than the abused, it's not unwise to protect the innocent from such a group. If it takes banning, so be it.


Tcg
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- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re:

Post #170

Post by JehovahsWitness »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:14 am I found a news report on this topic


[youtube][/youtube]

JehovahsWitness wrote:


Harrowing reports of torture coming out of Russia.
https://jwitness.wordpress.com/



It seems as if the "King of the North" is flexing his muscles.
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Go to other posts related to JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION and ...RUSSIAN BAN
I think K should have as des that the reaction of the German autorities reflect that of te European courts.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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