Humanitarian Warfare

[bluethread]

Though I understand territorial warfare and see that as clearly Constitutional, I am conflicted over humanitarian warfare, pardon the pun. I gather that I am not the only one, because it appears that though nearly all pacifists strongly oppose territorial warfare, some strongly argue for humanitarian warfare. Given the situation is Syria, this issue is now front and center. So, the question is do you think that humanitarian warfare is moral and should Trump have bombed the chemical stores at that base in Syria?

[Monta]

[Replying to post 9 by JP Cusick]


"Sorry if I derailed your topic. "

No you have not. We want to hear varied views and I for one from the other side of the world trying to understand yur country. As you put it, Democrats supporting everyhting D.s doing and others do the same. Who is left to choose what's best for the country?

People are intelligent and capable of making sensible decisions but we are
not given the facts as they are.

With all the talks of Democracy and freedom, we have no power whatsoever.

[JP Cusick]

People are intelligent and capable of making sensible decisions but we are
not given the facts as they are.

With all the talks of Democracy and freedom, we have no power whatsoever.

The evidence tells me that people can not be trusted even when given the facts.

In the Bible and in the ten commandments it does not give people so much freedom as people demand, as like the 10 commandments do not give freedom of speech and no freedom of religion either.

The idea of democracy is dangerous because democracy only counts the largest groups of people, while the smaller groups of people get crushed and the individual persons get viewed as nothing or irrelevant, or as you say = powerless.

The USA is blessed by being a Republic instead of a true democracy, and our American founders knew the dangers of democracy (majority rule / lynch mob mentality) and that is why the USA is a Republic to protect the Country from democracy.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 11 by JP Cusick]

"The USA is blessed by being a Republic instead of a true democracy, and our American founders knew the dangers of democracy (majority rule / lynch mob mentality) and that is why the USA is a Republic to protect the Country from democracy."

Interesting that I have not heard Trump using the word 'drmocracy' unlike his predecessors who were exporting it to other countries.

You mentioned the 10 Commandmants; it appears that religion is out of fashion with our enlightened western leaders. Instead they preach hate against other countries and its leaders and the population follows. While we pride ourselves in our scientific advancemets, deep down we are barbarians who justify killing others because they are not as good as we. Perhaps earth-life will never change.

[McCulloch]

The idea of democracy is dangerous because democracy only counts the largest groups of people, while the smaller groups of people get crushed and the individual persons get viewed as nothing or irrelevant, or as you say = powerless.

The USA is blessed by being a Republic instead of a true democracy, and our American founders knew the dangers of democracy (majority rule / lynch mob mentality) and that is why the USA is a Republic to protect the Country from democracy.

It is a mistake to equate democracy with simple majority rule. There are more types of democracies than simple majority rule.

According to political scientist Larry Diamond, democracy consists of four key elements:

1. A political system for choosing and replacing the government through free and fair elections;
2. The active participation of the people, as citizens, in politics and civic life;
3. Protection of the human rights of all citizens, and
4. A rule of law, in which the laws and procedures apply equally to all citizens.

The USA is a democratic republic. The principles of democracy have historically been very important to Americans.

[JP Cusick]

Interesting that I have not heard Trump using the word 'drmocracy' unlike his predecessors who were exporting it to other countries.

I am happy that Trump does not talk that garbage.

It always irritated me when Bush-43 would constantly declare that he and the USA were promoting democracy around the world.

I even remember reading about the 1st world war that one of the biggest fears of the Germans was that the west would force the democracy onto Germany because they did not want any democracy. And in due time it was the imposed democracy which gave rise to the National Socialist Party with Adolf Hitler.

You mentioned the 10 Commandmants; it appears that religion is out of fashion with our enlightened western leaders. Instead they preach hate against other countries and its leaders and the population follows. While we pride ourselves in our scientific advancemets, deep down we are barbarians who justify killing others because they are not as good as we.

I agree with this view.

And yes - we are the barbarians.

Perhaps earth-life will never change.

Again I agree, but the counter message is from the Gospel that God will save humanity from our own stubborn ignorance and brutalities.

If our only hope were humanity then we are lost indeed, but with God every thing is possible.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 14 by JP Cusick]

"Again I agree, but the counter message is from the Gospel that God will save humanity from our own stubborn ignorance and brutalities.

If our only hope were humanity then we are lost indeed, but with God every thing is possible."

I wonder whether Syrians and people in Mosul would feel as positive.
I also believe He would not allow us to destroy the earth but will allow us to suffer as that may be the only way to bring us to our knees.
We in peaceful coutries have no idea... I wonder what would my spirituality (and millions of other Christians) be like if we had to endure it in Syria last 6 years.

[JP Cusick]

It is a mistake to equate democracy with simple majority rule. There are more types of democracies than simple majority rule.

According to political scientist Larry Diamond, democracy consists of four key elements:

1. A political system for choosing and replacing the government through free and fair elections;
2. The active participation of the people, as citizens, in politics and civic life;
3. Protection of the human rights of all citizens, and
4. A rule of law, in which the laws and procedures apply equally to all citizens.

The USA is a democratic republic. The principles of democracy have historically been very important to Americans.

That democracy is simply = majority rule - is such a dangerous and horrible reality of democracy that it simply can not be ignored.

To ignore the aspect of majority rule would be like ignoring the bullet in the gun.

a) Changing the gov through majority election = is the danger.
b) The more people voting then the greater the danger of the lynch-mob-mentality.
c) Protecting of human rights is the exact opposite of majority rule democracy.
d) The majority rule specifically defies any reality of equality under law as the minority voters always get over ruled.

The USA being a republic is what was historically important - and being a republic is the only thing that has saved us so far from the peril of democracy.

[JP Cusick]

[Replying to post 14 by JP Cusick]
I wonder whether Syrians and people in Mosul would feel as positive.

I also believe He would not allow us to destroy the earth but will allow us to suffer as that may be the only way to bring us to our knees.

We in peaceful coutries have no idea... I wonder what would my spirituality (and millions of other Christians) be like if we had to endure it in Syria last 6 years.

I really believe that the people in Syria and in Iraq and Afghanistan are NOT counting on the USA to save their day, and they expect for God / Allah to save them from all evils including salvation from the USA.

I agree that God will not allow the earth to be destroyed by humanity, but the earth and humanity are already created to survive, just as God saved 7 people in the flood and saved Lot out of Sodom - so if we do have a nuclear world war then some people will be chosen by God to survive.

I also agree that we suffer to bring us to our knees - and rightly so - and it is always our own self created suffering.

Christians in Syria would likely buckle, but the Muslims will not, and when I read the Qur'an then the Muslim religion is fundamentally based on defying the evil western invasions, as like this is just another crusade which is doomed to fail again.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 17 by JP Cusick]

I have to agree I don't believe the future of the planet will ultimately rest with man. My personal belief is that God is the souvereign and that, no he will not allow the planet to be destroyed.

JW

[bluethread]

The USA being a republic is what was historically important - and being a republic is the only thing that has saved us so far from the peril of democracy.

I would say that it is being a constitutional republic that has saved us so far. A simple republic tends to become an elected aristocracy. I personally believe that is the greater current danger, as opposed to mob rule, as the idea of the Constitution being seen as a "living document" gains prominence. Applying this to the OP, aristocratic humanitarianism has created a domestic aristocracy and that has bled into foreign policy.