Modern Environmental movment

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Modern Environmental movment

Post #1

Post by EarthScienceguy »

For the past 30 years there has been a building a growing chorus of voices which seems to have reached a crescendo in the last 10 years of people screaming about the climbing rate of CO2 in our atmosphere and how this is causing the atmosphere to warm at an alarming rate. And yet CO2 is at one of its lowest points over the past 600 million years.

The alarm has gone off about melting polar ice caps and yet for most of the past 600 million years the Earth has been without polar ice caps.

The alarm has gone off about extreme weather being caused by "climate change" and yet extreme weather is caused by large differences in temperature differences. And there is evidence that when the earth was warmer the north and south poles had similar temperatures to the equator.

Life has flourished in the last 600 million years. In fact more than 90% of all life that has lived on this planet lived when the Earth was much warmer than it is today.

This facts can be known by anyone. In and are not in dispute, when Bill Nye (I am using Bill Nye as an example not because he is any type of great scientist) is pressed on these facts he does not dispute them he expresses that the rate of increase is the concerned.

With all these facts that are contrary to the climate change narrative, is there another reason why this climate change narrative is being put forward?

A major point that is raised as a cause to the raising the CO2 concentration is the population increase of the world. Bill Nye raised this point a few years ago putting forward the thought that couples should have to register to have children.

And yet the entire population of the world could fit into the the state of Florida and each one could have 200 square feet apiece.


Karl Marx
You must, therefore, confess that by "individual" you mean no other person than the bourgeois, than the middle-class owner of property. This person must indeed, be swept out of the way, and made impossible. (Published by Progress Publishers, Moscow, 1973 edition, page 66)]

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Re: Modern Environmental movment

Post #2

Post by Guy Threepwood »

[Replying to EarthScienceguy]
The alarm has gone off about extreme weather being caused by "climate change" and yet extreme weather is caused by large differences in temperature differences.
^ Bingo

I agree with the rest also,- but 'more extreme weather' is one of most scientifically illiterate claims pop science constantly makes about the greenhouse effect (usually with a stock photo of steam coming out of a cooling tower to represent anthropogenic CO2 :shock: )

The exact opposite is true of course;
Being a form of insulation, the greenhouse effect evens out a planet's temperature, reducing the overall energy transfer made available to weather systems.

Venus is a good example- almost pure CO2 atmos, closer to the sun, 100's of degrees F- and hardly a breath of wind at the surface- because there is hardly any temp differential between poles and equator.

In contrast the most violent, largest, most persistent storms we know of, exist on very cold planets like Jupiter and Saturn, with very little GH effect to dampen them

But as I posted elsewhere; the 'problem' doesn't really matter- it's the 'solutions' that proponents are invariably more interested in, & that end justifies the means

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Re: Modern Environmental movment

Post #3

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to Guy Threepwood]

Thanks Guy Threewood

I also cringe when commentators start talking about severe whether and global warming.

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Re: Modern Environmental movment

Post #4

Post by 2ndRateMind »

[Replying to post 1 by EarthScienceguy]

I read somewhere that 97% of scientists agree climate change is a real phenomenon, and caused by human activity. Apart from obvious indicators, such that the icecaps are melting, the coral reefs bleaching and dieing, and we are into global species extinctions in a big way, lesser matters such as increased flooding, more wild fires, and changes in rural ways of life due to earlier springs and later autumns attest to the above truths.

As Christians, we are, I think, stewards of God's providence on behalf of our children, and theirs. I think we should take the 97% seriously, and alter our ways of life such that our descendents will bless, not curse, us for their legacy.

What is wrong with the world, such that we think it worth risking climatic change without even knowing for sure what those changes will be and how they will affect us?

Maybe, the people with the agenda are not those who lean to green in their politics, but the rich, who do not care about the poor enough to compromise their profligate standard of living, even when those poor will inevitably bear the brunt of the effect of our careless ways of life.

Best wishes, 2RM.

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Re: Modern Environmental movment

Post #5

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to post 4 by 2ndRateMind]

The 97% of scientist agreeing that there is climate change is a whole can of worms that I do not want to get into on this topic.

The problem I have is with the agenda and the policies that the global warming proponents are putting forward. Along with many of the arguments that they are putting forward as science fact are simply not true.

Like for example, Africa is rich in coal and other natural resources. And yet many in Africa are dying because of cooking over open fires and because of not having electrical power to run pumps and other devices that we take for granted. Simply because they are not given the money to build coal burning power plants. We changed our nation using fossil fuels and yet the third word countries are being condemned to live in substandard situations simply because of “green policies.�

Population control has been suggested by more than a few in this “green agenda�.

It seems that there is a lot of death that is being allowed, caused and desiring to take place by this “green agenda.�

And yet there are reports in the news that do not follow known facts about the Earth and weather. Like for example declaring that severe weather is going to get worse because of global warming that is simply not true. Or that it will spell disaster for the Earth if the polar ice caps would melt. When in fact it is more common throughout the history of the earth not to have ice at the poles and for the carbon dioxide levels to be much higher.

A thinking man has to ask himself why are there all these discrepancies in the facts and why is there no concern for human life.

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Re: Modern Environmental movment

Post #6

Post by Tcg »

EarthScienceguy wrote: [Replying to post 4 by 2ndRateMind]

The 97% of scientist agreeing that there is climate change is a whole can of worms that I do not want to get into on this topic.
You've started a thread in which you don't want to discuss facts related to your topic?

This is a very odd tactic. I suppose though if one hopes to start a conspiracy theory, relevant facts would be quite inconvenient.

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Re: Modern Environmental movment

Post #7

Post by 2ndRateMind »

[Replying to post 5 by EarthScienceguy]

Hmmm. My own feeling is that the challenge of our generation is to find ways to eradicate global absolute poverty, while simultaneously remaining comfortably within the Earth's ecological carrying capacity. These are life affirming, and quality of life affirming, objectives. I do not recognise any death wishes amongst the green movement.

Best wishes, 2RM.

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Re: Modern Environmental movment

Post #8

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to Tcg]

In my opening statement I gave lots of facts that could be easily refuted if 97% of scientist agree in man caused global warming.

Whether there is global warming or not is not the point. My point is that for most of the climate history the Earth has been warmer than it is today and the green house gases have been higher than they are today. This fact alone does not agree with the narrative that the "global warming alarmist" have been feeding the public.

In fact higher CO2 concentrations would mean higher crop productions and stronger plants that could live in places that they cannot now exist. And that agrees with the fossil record, larger and stronger plants in the past than we see today.

And not all Scientist agree that the rise in temperature and higher CO2 concentration is man made. And one of the great things about science is that you do not need to be in the major to be right. There have been many times when a researcher has been in the minority has been correct.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylo ... 63f6e74c7c

https://www.forbes.com/sites/uhenergy/2 ... d2f0291157

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Re: Modern Environmental movment

Post #9

Post by Tcg »

[Replying to EarthScienceguy]

Here are some facts to consider:

"Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals1 show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree*: Climate-warming trends over the past century are extremely likely due to human activities. In addition, most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position."

https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

Of course if one is pushing a conspiracy theory, they'll find excuses to doubt this report from NASA.

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Re: Modern Environmental movment

Post #10

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to post 7 by 2ndRateMind]

That is the point. Will the rise in green house gases truly heat the earth up to an uncomfortable level for humans to exist on this planet. Because in the past this planet has been much warmer and the CO2 level much higher. This is not one of the facts in dispute. In fact when the CO2 level is higher plants grow better, this has been shown in experiment after experiment.

The issue for "climate change proponents" is the rate of increase. Now the reason why the I have a problem with the rate of increase is because it is the one variable that we cannot test or observe. We cannot go back in the past and look at the rate of increases over short periods of time. And in geologic time 100 years is a very short period of time.

And 97% of scientist do not agree with man made global warming.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylo ... 63f6e74c7c

https://www.forbes.com/sites/uhenergy/2 ... 2e36811576

And I will say this again in science you do not have to be in the majority to be the one that is correct.

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