Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

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Danmark
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Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

Post #1

Post by Danmark »

Does evangelical support for Trump create a crisis for Christianity?
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... cn2gnaekoQ

Are his policies and personal character consistent with Christian values?

Related to this, should a Christian who wants to bear witness for the risen Christ sell all he has, give to the poor, and follow Jesus?
Or should he or she accumulate wealth to show he is blessed by God?

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Post #51

Post by Elijah John »

[Replying to post 46 by Danmark]

So, do you think Jesus would be good with adultery as long as it's "consensual"?

Or that he would approve of abortion, and the whole LGBTQIA+ agenda?

Support for Trump does not necessitate support for everything he said or did. And granted, neither does support for either Clinton.

RR's examples are relevant because they demonstrate some legitimate reasons Christians support Trump. For his policies against abortion, and for his support of traditional Chrisitian values, which the RCC upholds, as do other more conservative Churches.

Democrats, by contrast, attempt to implement, and have already implemented some anti-Christian values on some important matters.

Granted, Republicans and President Trump could do a better job helping the downtrodden, and if they did, no doubt Jesus would approve.

But neither party has a monopoly on abiding by Christian values when it comes to the policies they advocate.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Post #52

Post by Danmark »

Elijah John wrote: [Replying to post 46 by Danmark]

So, do you think Jesus would be good with adultery as long as it's "consensual"?

Or that he would approve of abortion, and the whole LGBTQIA+ agenda?

Support for Trump does not necessitate support for everything he said or did. And granted, neither does support for either Clinton.

RR's examples are relevant because they demonstrate some legitimate reasons Christians support Trump. For his policies against abortion, and for his support of traditional Chrisitian values, which the RCC upholds, as do other more conservative Churches.

Democrats, by contrast, attempt to implement, and have already implemented some anti-Christian values on some important matters.

Granted, Republicans and President Trump could do a better job helping the downtrodden, and if they did, no doubt Jesus would approve.

But neither party has a monopoly on abiding by Christian values when it comes to the policies they advocate.
Jesus never issued an opinion on the unborn. The OT is ambiguous about it. Jesus DID issue an opinion opposing adultery. Trump daily breaks the ten commandments, or some of them. He lies 10 times a day on average. He boasts about looking at women lustfully and actually touching them illegally. He preaches laying up treasures here on earth. He covets. He steals. He publicly uses foul language.

The Dems (I'm an independent) clearly advocate for issues Christ preached as the center of his ministry, helping the poor. The comparison is not even close and you haven't been specific about DEMS "implementing some anti-Christian values on some important matters."

Trump does NOT "support traditional Chrisitian [sic] values." Not even close. He supports fundamentalist political issues, not true christian values. That is the essence of my point, that fundamentalists support what they claim are Christian values, but they are not. They are anti Jesus values that have become part of a segment of 'Christian POLITICAL values. These phony Christians are hurting Christianity WAY more than atheists. https://www.newsweek.com/ex-reagan-advi ... gkhf374gbo

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Post #53

Post by RightReason »

[Replying to post 52 by Danmark]
Jesus never issued an opinion on the unborn.
Jesus never used the word Trinity either, but it is the crux of Christianity.

And not sure why you keep ignoring it, but yes, Christians are expected to obey the moral law and the 10 commandments are still in effect and thou shall not kill is one of them.

Also, like I keep saying no where in the Bible does it say the Bible is our only authority. Christians have always been expected to follow Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition (the Church). And the Church has a lot to say on abortion.

2258 "Human life is sacred because from its beginning it involves the creative action of God and it remains for ever in a special relationship with the Creator, who is its sole end. God alone is the Lord of life from its beginning until its end: no one can under any circumstance claim for himself the right directly to destroy an innocent human being."56


2261 Scripture specifies the prohibition contained in the fifth commandment: "Do not slay the innocent and the righteous."61 The deliberate murder of an innocent person is gravely contrary to the dignity of the human being, to the golden rule, and to the holiness of the Creator. The law forbidding it is universally valid: it obliges each and everyone, always and everywhere.


2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.72

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.73

My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.74

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:


You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.75

God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.76

2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"77 "by the very commission of the offense,"78 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:


(Trump)He lies 10 times a day on average. He boasts about looking at women lustfully and actually touching them illegally. He preaches laying up treasures here on earth. He covets. He steals. He publicly uses foul language.
This could describe many of our past presidents and current politicians as well.

The Dems (I'm an independent) clearly advocate for issues Christ preached as the center of his ministry, helping the poor. The comparison is not even close and you haven't been specific about DEMS "implementing some anti-Christian values on some important matters."
I’ve been very specific. They support legislation that allows a baby to be pulled out from his mother’s womb, stabbed in the back of the neck with a knife, and then ripped apart limb by limb and or his body parts sucked out in vacuum and put down a garbage disposal.

I also would question immoral programs and policies that supposedly “help� the poor. Dems often push for things like sterilization of women as means of birth control methods or even enforcing one child policies, in order to combat poverty, but these policies are immoral and strip the human person of dignity as well as allow the state to force its beliefs upon the individual.
Trump does NOT "support traditional Chrisitian [sic] values." Not even close.
I am afraid that is your biased opinion.
He supports fundamentalist political issues, not true christian values.
Ahhhh . . . the ‘ole no true Scotsman fallacy, eh?

That is the essence of my point, that fundamentalists support what they claim are Christian values, but they are not.
Ha, ha, ha . . . thank you again for your opinion.

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Post #54

Post by Bust Nak »

Elijah John wrote: Democrats, by contrast, attempt to implement, and have already implemented some anti-Christian values on some important matters.
I don't know, Jesus seemed to be pretty clear on secularism re: Render unto Caesar.
RightReason wrote: Dems often push for things like sterilization of women as means of birth control methods or even enforcing one child policies...
The what now?

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Post #55

Post by Danmark »

Bust Nak wrote:
Elijah John wrote: Democrats, by contrast, attempt to implement, and have already implemented some anti-Christian values on some important matters.
I don't know, Jesus seemed to be pretty clear on secularism re: Render unto Caesar.
RightReason wrote: Dems often push for things like sterilization of women as means of birth control methods or even enforcing one child policies...
The what now?
:) Indeed!
Both of these claims are not supported by argument or fact and fall short of rule #5

5. Support your assertions/arguments with evidence. Do not persist in making a claim without supporting it. All unsupported claims can be challenged for supporting evidence.

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Post #56

Post by Elijah John »

[Replying to post 55 by Danmark]

I'm glad you asked. Anti- Christian policies such as support for homosexual marriage and abortion. In fact, DNC chairman Tom Perez said that pro-life (or as they call it "anti-choice") people are not welcome in the Democrat party.

And please demonstrate where either the Bible or Christianity in general has historically supported any of the LBGTQIA+ agenda? This is a new phenomena, and antithetical to traditional Christianity.

Yes, you are right in this. Republicans could do a better job in supporting help for the poor and the outcast. If they did, they would be more in line with Christian values. The RCC does a good job here, would that Catholic Republicans and pundits did as well.

But it's not an either/or situation. Christians can, and should favor support for the downtrodden, AND uphold traditional Christian morality. And not buy-into every progressive, alphabetical cause that is now deemed right and fashionable. "Male and female he made them, for this reason...." And Paul an the OT explicitly condemn homosexual behavior.

And here's another Christian value that the Left, including all the Democrat candidates for president have ignored. "Judge not". They do this in using the false charge of "racism" at the drop of a hat. Sadly, just about every Democrat candidate robotically repeats this mindless mantra without question, against president Trump.

Fox news has compared some statements and policies made by President Obama (is Obama a "racist"??) to President Trump and they are very similar. Statements on border policy, etc. Juan Williams answered "yes but, we know President Trump's motivations" or words to that effect.

Really Juan? You know the President's heart? "Judge not". And "don't bear false witness". Those are also Christians values that Democrats often ignore.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Post #57

Post by Bust Nak »

[Replying to post 56 by Elijah John]

Do you see a difference between anti-Christianity policies and non-pro-Christianity policies? What you've described here is a far cry from feeding Christians to lions, plus there are many religious exemption like where churches are not required to marry same sex couples.

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Post #58

Post by Elijah John »

[Replying to post 55 by Danmark]

Also, rampant disrespect for authority. Remember, "render unto Caesar" and "be subject to earthly princes etc, for God gave them their authority" (To paraphrase Paul).

Examples? Disrespectful statements against ICE, coaching fugitives on how to evade ICE, not answer doors etc.. Obstruction of justice against the lawful execution of their duties.

Sanctuary cites, BLM rhetoric which has arguably led to violence against police, and resisting arrest. Resisting arrest leads to escalation, then the police are often blamed. Mayor Debasio teaching his child to be caustious around police. Elizabeth Warren accusing the police of racism, "front to back".

And have any of the Democrat candidates condemned the drenching of police with buckets of water in Harlem and other parts of NYC?

The mayor did, to his credit, but how about the others?

Respect for authority and Law and Order is a Judeo-Christian value.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

Elijah John
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Post #59

Post by Elijah John »

[Replying to post 57 by Bust Nak]

No one's talking about the actual persecution of Christians here, unless I missed it.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Danmark
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Post #60

Post by Danmark »

Elijah John wrote: [Replying to post 55 by Danmark]

Also, rampant disrespect for authority. Remember, "render unto Caesar" and "be subject to earthly princes etc, for God gave them their authority" (To paraphrase Paul).

Examples? Disrespectful statements against ICE, coaching fugitives on how to evade ICE, not answer doors etc.. Obstruction of justice against the lawful execution of their duties.

Sanctuary cites, BLM rhetoric which has arguably led to violence against police, and resisting arrest. Resisting arrest leads to escalation, then the police are often blamed. Mayor Debasio teaching his child to be caustious around police. Elizabeth Warren accusing the police of racism, "front to back".

And have any of the Democrat candidates condemned the drenching of police with buckets of water in Harlem and other parts of NYC?

The mayor did, to his credit, but how about the others?

Respect for authority and Law and Order is a Judeo-Christian value.
Ridiculous! Apparently not being able to find true immorality like I cited for Trump, the flagrant and persistent breaking of the Ten Commandments, you've cited a peripheral and questionable admonition from Paul. In America protesting government, even disrespecting it, is an essential part of being an American. We express loyalty by being critical. Civil disobedience is virtually part of our charter. It's been part of our national culture at least since Henry Thoreau.

In addition, standing up to ice, protecting the poor and vulnerable is EXACTLY what Jesus advocated. Even the RC church has a long history of standing up to gov'mint to protect the poor, including literally providing sanctuary.
Last edited by Danmark on Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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