Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

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Danmark
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Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

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Post by Danmark »

Does evangelical support for Trump create a crisis for Christianity?
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... cn2gnaekoQ

Are his policies and personal character consistent with Christian values?

Related to this, should a Christian who wants to bear witness for the risen Christ sell all he has, give to the poor, and follow Jesus?
Or should he or she accumulate wealth to show he is blessed by God?

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Post by Divine Insight »

I don't think a person should need to be a Christian to see that Donald Trump's behavior and policies are about as opposite to the teachings of Christ as they can possibly be.

If I were still a Christian I would actually suspect that Donald Trump may very well be the prophesied anti-Christ who will potentially lead us into the battle of Armageddon, and he won't be representing the side of good.

If there is a God all I can say is that I'm very happy that I have never supported Trump and I'm embarrassed to have him as our president. I didn't vote for him. And in 2020 I'm voting a straight Democratic ticket, I don't even care who's on it.

So I take no responsibility for Donald Trump and his administration. If it were up to me he would have never won the presidency in the first place. So if he does turn out to be the anti-Christ I wash my hands of the whole affair. I renounced him from day one. I want nothing to do with him. I reject his polices and his behavior.
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Re: Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

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Post by bjs »

Danmark wrote: Does evangelical support for Trump create a crisis for Christianity?
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... cn2gnaekoQ
Sort of. Committing to any political candidate or position above Christ is a crisis. I would like the church to be a-political, but I don’t know how possible that is in in the world of modern polling where everyone is divided into subgroups for the sake of marketing. I will note that in the last election several polls found that most Evangelicals, like most Americans in general, thought that neither candidate was suitable for office. I felt that, more than any election in my life up to that point, I was forced to choose the lesser of two evils.
Danmark wrote: Are his policies
It’s a mixed bag. His treatment of immigrants is anti-Christian. Reworking the federal penal system last year, which Trump was directly responsible for getting passed, was deeply compassionate.
Danmark wrote: and personal character consistent with Christian values?
I don’t know him personally, but much of what he says on twitter seems cruel or dishonest.

Danmark wrote: Related to this, should a Christian who wants to bear witness for the risen Christ sell all he has, give to the poor, and follow Jesus?
Or should he or she accumulate wealth to show he is blessed by God?
Bearing witness and following Jesus is essential. Neither selling everything nor accumulating wealth seems to fall in line with the teachings of the Apostles.
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo

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Re: Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

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Post by RightReason »

[Replying to Danmark]
Does evangelical support for Trump create a crisis for Christianity?
Same as any Christian supporting something that would be contrary to Christian teaching – not sure why Trump would cause any more alarm than any other sleazy politician.

Are his policies and personal character consistent with Christian values?
Depends which ones you are referring to. Is there something specific you can state? I am unaware of any anti-Christian policies he is looking to implement. As for his moral character, well . . . the same thing can be called into question regarding many politicians. It was pretty well known JFK cheated on Jackie numerous times and White House staff even helped keep his secrets and yet I don’t remember anyone claiming Kennedy was creating a crisis for Christianity.
Related to this, should a Christian who wants to bear witness for the risen Christ sell all he has, give to the poor, and follow Jesus?
In a metaphorical and spiritual way – yes! As for literally, I do not believe all are called to sell all their belongings – some are. Of course we are all expected to help the poor and follow Jesus.
Or should he or she accumulate wealth to show he is blessed by God?
The prosperity gospel is a sham. There is no reason to think accumulation of wealth shows one is blessed. Nor does having wealth mean one is not blessed. Nothing inherently wrong with being financially successful. Just be careful. “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God�

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Post #5

Post by RightReason »

[Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]
I don't think a person should need to be a Christian to see that Donald Trump's behavior and policies are about as opposite to the teachings of Christ as they can possibly be.
Moral behavior sometimes – sure. So, was Bill Clinton, John F. Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, etc. . . .

But his policies? Which ones? Nothing unchristian about patriotism (loving of one’s country), reducing unemployment, helping business owners create more jobs, enforcing laws that Congress has enacted, supporting marriage and family values, standing up for religious freedom, standing up for the worst human rights crisis of our times (the slaughter of the unborn).
If I were still a Christian I would actually suspect that Donald Trump may very well be the prophesied anti-Christ
Hmmm . . . perhaps then there is a reason you are not a Christian. Trump is the most pro life President we have had to date. The Obama administration was guilty of targeting conservative Christian groups whereas Trump continues to fight for religious freedom.

I'm embarrassed to have him as our president.
I agree. He is not a very good role model in regards to some of his personal life. He’s also not a very good public speaker. I often cringe when he speaks. But being embarrassed is better than being horrified. If Hilary would have won, I would have been horrified that we had elected the most anti life anti woman President to date. Plus her husband Bill was quite the embarrassment himself and they both certainly were involved in their fair share of corrupt even criminal behaviors.

I didn't vote for him.
I did. A lesser of two evils kind of thing. I couldn’t believe those two were our choices.

And in 2020 I'm voting a straight Democratic ticket, I don't even care who's on it.
Well, that isn’t very wise. It is shortsighted to not recognize there actually can be an even more morally corrupt individual than Trump. Also, it is shortsighted to not acknowledge the economy is doing better, Trump is getting way more done than Obama ever did, etc.

If it were up to me he would have never won the presidency in the first place. So if he does turn out to be the anti-Christ I wash my hands of the whole affair. I renounced him from day one. I want nothing to do with him. I reject his polices and his behavior.
I think more people saw Obama as the anti-Christ than Trump. Personally, I think making statements like that are silly. I don’t think either are the anti-Christ, though I certainly would say, in my opinion, Obama kinda fits the description more than Trump – attractive, charming, everyone loves him, smooth, . . .

Reminds me of one of my favorite scenes from my favorite movie, Broadcast News, in how we would be able to recognize the anti-Christ . . .


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Re: Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

Post #6

Post by RightReason »

[Replying to post 3 by bjs]
It’s a mixed bag. His treatment of immigrants is anti-Christian.
No, it really isn’t. How soon people forget both Clinton and Obama had to detain immigrants as well.

Similarly, as Catholics, we are called to welcome the stranger, but also to respect the law. We are morally bound to respect the dignity of every human person, but cannot create civil disorder. It is our responsibility as lay persons to put the Church’s teachings into action and help advance an immigration system that serves the common good.

The Catholic Church has never advocated for illegal immigration or open borders. It respects the sovereign rule of law of the United States. It recognizes the need for effective border enforcement that protects Americans from criminal and terrorist elements but at the same time allows for orderly and legal immigration.

Congress should examine the root causes of migration, such as under�development and poverty in sending countries, and seek long�term solutions. The antidote to the problem of illegal immigration is sustainable economic development in sending countries. In an ideal world, migration should be driven by choice, not necessity.

https://www.catholicvote.org/discover/immigration/

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Post #7

Post by JJ50 »

Trump is a dangerous clown who is making his country the laughing stock of this planet. I doubt that chap, Jesus, would have want that idiot in his gang.

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Post #8

Post by RightReason »

[Replying to JJ50]
Trump is a dangerous clown who is making his country the laughing stock of this planet. I doubt that chap, Jesus, would have want that idiot in his gang.
I couldn’t agree more. But have no doubt nor would Jesus have wanted someone who is cool with infanticide.

Christians have always been expected to live in the world without being of the world. There are lots of things the state declares ok or legal that we Christians oppose, but we still recognize the need for the state and the allegiance we owe the state. “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.�

Christians are called to be oppose unjust laws and fight the good fight -- unfortunately, this battle often includes the choosing the lesser evil. It could actually be immoral to not vote, especially when we are talking about issues where the right to life and the dignity of the human person are at stake.

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Re: Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

Post #9

Post by Danmark »

Your response made sense until:
bjs wrote:
Neither selling everything nor accumulating wealth seems to fall in line with the teachings of the Apostles.
'Jesus said to him,
“If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.�'

__ Matthew 19:21

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Re: Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

Post #10

Post by Elijah John »

Danmark wrote: Your response made sense until:
bjs wrote:
Neither selling everything nor accumulating wealth seems to fall in line with the teachings of the Apostles.
'Jesus said to him,
“If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.�'

__ Matthew 19:21
Is support for Nancy Pelosi contrary to Christian values? I doubt she has done that either.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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