Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

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Danmark
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Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

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Post by Danmark »

Does evangelical support for Trump create a crisis for Christianity?
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... cn2gnaekoQ

Are his policies and personal character consistent with Christian values?

Related to this, should a Christian who wants to bear witness for the risen Christ sell all he has, give to the poor, and follow Jesus?
Or should he or she accumulate wealth to show he is blessed by God?

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Re: Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

Post #91

Post by AgnosticBoy »

koko wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:54 am
AgnosticBoy wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:25 pm

God can also forgive everyone if they seek him. We know a lot of what Trump is willing to "say" for the cameras, but his actual actions are much more tamed. This is why I say the media needs to spend less time focusing on his tweets, and more time focusing on his actual policies. And then compare those policies to that of the Democrats.

Keep in mind, the rules here prohibit questioning someone's faith or belief so I'm not about to get into a debate on his faith. He says he's a Christian and it's not up to you nor I to question it.

The OP poses the question so if any of this is in violation you will need to take it up with the originator who asks "Are his (Trump's) policies and personal character consistent with Christian values?" and with the admin who approved of the thread and the replies to it.

As for the media, every time they pose a challenging questions Trump starts to make accusations of bias, starts to criticize, and runs off the stage in order to avoid the issue. How can the media focus on issues if he won't do so?
My view, the mainstream media is upset because Trump won despite having some character flaws and honesty problems when it comes to facts. So now they're acting like him. CNN's trustability ratings are below 45%, that means that less than half of the viewers who watch them trust them. When people think the only way to beat Trump is to act like him then the country loses.

koko

Re: Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

Post #92

Post by koko »

AgnosticBoy,

So now they're acting like him.

Kudos to you for admitting he is the one setting the bad example. Don't quite agree with but accept the rest of your reply.

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Re: Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

Post #93

Post by Tcg »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:55 am
My view, the mainstream media is upset because Trump won despite having some character flaws and honesty problems when it comes to facts.
Some character flaws? You mean for example sexual predation?

Honesty problems when it comes to facts? You mean intentional dishonesty used to cover his intentional dishonesty?

One would hope the mainstream media would not be the only ones upset by sexual predation and intentional dishonesty. Unfortunately, many not only overlook them, but downplay them as if they are not a major issue. They even develop alternative phrases to describe them hoping others will then consider them unimportant. Sadly, this ploy seems to have worked on some. Gladly, the tide is turning and even a picture with a book he seems to have no knowledge won't stop it.


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Re: Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

Post #94

Post by historia »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:52 am
koko wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:00 am
Only 27 percent of registered voters in a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll said they somewhat or strongly agree that Trump himself is religious, while 55 percent somewhat or strongly disagree.
That poll was probably done before the photoop. I'd like to see a poll done after the photo.
The poll was conducted after the photo op. From the Politico article koko posted above:
Politico wrote:
The June 6-7 survey was conducted following Trump’s back-to-back visits to two Christian sites in Washington, including a photo op outside St. John’s Episcopal Church near the White House where he posed with a Bible after authorities forcibly cleared protesters from the vicinity.

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Re: Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

Post #95

Post by AgnosticBoy »

historia wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:21 am
AgnosticBoy wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:52 am
koko wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:00 am
Only 27 percent of registered voters in a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll said they somewhat or strongly agree that Trump himself is religious, while 55 percent somewhat or strongly disagree.
That poll was probably done before the photoop. I'd like to see a poll done after the photo.
The poll was conducted after the photo op. From the Politico article koko posted above:
Politico wrote:
The June 6-7 survey was conducted following Trump’s back-to-back visits to two Christian sites in Washington, including a photo op outside St. John’s Episcopal Church near the White House where he posed with a Bible after authorities forcibly cleared protesters from the vicinity.
I'd like to see a trend and not just a snapshot. Perhaps the percentage who believes he is a Christian has grown since the photo op? Maybe koko can help out with that

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Re: Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

Post #96

Post by historia »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:07 pm
historia wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:21 am
AgnosticBoy wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:52 am
That poll was probably done before the photoop. I'd like to see a poll done after the photo.
The poll was conducted after the photo op.
I'd like to see a trend and not just a snapshot.
Pew did a survey back in March. They found:
Pew Forum wrote:
[J]ust 35% of U.S. adults overall say Trump is either very religious (7%) or somewhat religious (28%); a solid majority of the general public thinks he is "not too" or "not at all" religious (63%).
That's actually somewhat higher (35%) than the Politico survey (27%), but they are close.

It's not clear to me why you would think a single photo op would have a significant impact on people's perceptions here.

koko

Re: Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

Post #97

Post by koko »

The conservative Cincinnati Enquirer made an interesting op ed today about Trumpism and bigotry:


https://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinio ... 209123001/


Some of my Republican friends are quick to tell me how much they’re repulsed by Donald Trump, yet they continue to support him anyway because they like some of his policies. When I note that they’re supporting the darling of white supremacy, they insist this doesn’t mean they condone racism or that they themselves are racist – and they take great offense that I or anyone else would think otherwise because, after all, "You don’t know what’s in my heart."
...
You’re right. I may not know what’s in your heart. But I can see what you do, and I can see whom you’re doing it with. And I can see that when you support the candidate of white supremacy, you are aligning yourself with white supremacists, adding weight and power to their racism, even if you are not personally racist yourself.

When you vote, whether in person or by mail, no one will sort out the "racist Trump" votes from the "not racist Trump" votes. If you vote for Trump, your vote will go into the same pile with those cast by voters who support Trump because of, not in spite of, his racism, xenophobia and malevolence. And when the voting’s done and the counting starts, your vote will be counted right along with theirs, and the tabulators couldn’t care less what’s in your heart. All they’ll see is that your ballot for Trump looks exactly like all the other ballots for Trump, and they’ll simply mark you down as one more vote for the white supremacists’ candidate.
...
So, my friend, if you choose to vote for Trump in November, please don’t be offended if you’re mistaken for a racist, even if you’re not. When you align yourself with racists, it’s hard to tell you apart from them, regardless what may be in your heart, because to those of us over here on the right side of history, you all look alike.




The Bible requires all Christians to treat everyone alike and to be at peace with everyone. Racism is totally antithetical to true Christianity. As this conservative newspaper notes, Trumpism is the embodiment of racism. While a great many right wingers are deluded into thinking that by voting for Trump that this is a Christian thing to do, in reality it is the precise opposite. It is time for people to denounce the bigotry and hate Trump displays every day. Be a true Christian and accept this reproof for your own good and for that of the USA.

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Re: Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

Post #98

Post by AgnosticBoy »

Danmark wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:38 pm Does evangelical support for Trump create a crisis for Christianity?
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... cn2gnaekoQ

Are his policies and personal character consistent with Christian values?

Related to this, should a Christian who wants to bear witness for the risen Christ sell all he has, give to the poor, and follow Jesus?
Or should he or she accumulate wealth to show he is blessed by God?
More and more Liberals insist on asking me how I could ever consider voting for Trump. Apparently, they do not understand the mind of Independents or even some Republicans.

I can spend all day listening to and even contributing to discussion on all of the wrong things that Trump and the Republicans have done, but that does NOT make the Democrats saints. Once a liberal crosses that line from Republican criticism, to trying to tell me that I must vote Democrat, then I let them have it.

To an Independent or even to some Republicans, we aren't considering Trump or the Republican party because we agree with everything they say or advocate for. We are considering the Republican party because we agree with them the most. I doubt anyone would agree with every single word or policy of their party, so why expect a Republican or Independent to do that?

It is worth mentioning that to date, the INDEPENDENTS are the majority, making up 40% of the electorate. Only 31% are registered Democrats and 25% Republicans. Both Republicans and Democrats would do well to understand the Independents. The more extreme both sides become then the more they'll drive people to the (I) party.

Source for stats:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/part ... ation.aspx

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Re: Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

Post #99

Post by 2ndRateMind »

Danmark wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:38 pm Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?
Yes, definitely.
Danmark wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:38 pm Does evangelical support for Trump create a crisis for Christianity?
Not really. I have never yet been convinced that right-leaning evangelicals are proper Christians, anyway. 'Methinks they do protest too much'.
Danmark wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:38 pm Are his policies and personal character consistent with Christian values?
No. If he was sincere in his faith, and actually loved his neighbour, he would be less rich and more generous, and more inclined to serve his people than to rule over them. Possibly he even might stop telling lies, and give a lead on the covid-19 virus, putting people before dollars. Rather than seeing the presidency as his personal ego platform and enrichment machine.
Danmark wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:38 pm Related to this, should a Christian who wants to bear witness for the risen Christ sell all he has, give to the poor, and follow Jesus?
Or should he or she accumulate wealth to show he is blessed by God?
Neither. It's a false dichotomy. God's providence is quite sufficient to provide us all with a decent living. According to some back of an envelope calculations I did a couple of years ago, based on numbers from Credit Suisse, there is enough wealth and production in the world to provide us all (man, woman and child) with a net worth of some $33,000 and a gross income of some $17,000. So just multiply these figures by four for the conventional nuclear family. Instead, we have a world where the top 1% owns as much as everyone else put together, the top 10% owns 85% of the world's resources, and the top 30% owns 97% of the world's resources. Try as I might, I cannot think this is how God intended His abundance to be distributed.

Best wishes, 2RM.
Last edited by 2ndRateMind on Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

Post #100

Post by historia »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:40 am
More and more Liberals insist on asking me how I could ever consider voting for Trump . . . . we aren't considering Trump or the Republican party because we agree with everything they say or advocate for.
I suspect people are surprised you are considering voting for Trump, not because they find it hard to believe someone might support Trump's policy positions, but because Trump himself is, in the words of his longest-serving national security advisor, "erratic," "irrational," "stunningly uninformed," "strikingly naive and dangerous," lacking "competence to carry out the job," and thus simply "unfit for the office."

As I mentioned elsewhere: many suburban voters (and, in particular, suburban women) are appalled by his behavior, and that drove large numbers of them in the 2018 mid-terms to vote against the party that put him in power. We're seeing a similar trend in the early 2020 polls.

In the long-term, then, Trump could hurt the policy objectives you want to see enacted by turning a generation of reliable suburban voters away from the Republican party. The sooner he is out of power, the sooner Republicans can stop the bleeding.

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