Today's Left wing Democrat party.

Two hot topics for the price of one

Moderator: Moderators

Elijah John
Savant
Posts: 12235
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:23 pm
Location: New England
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Today's Left wing Democrat party.

Post #1

Post by Elijah John »

Even former President Obama and Bill Clinton campaign advisor James Carville are critical of today's Democrat party. Obama warning against the "cancel culture" of the Left, and Carville expressing dismay at such notions as Democrat advocacy for voting rights for felons still in prison, (or is that just Bernie who wants that?) and Dems "no borders" policies.

For debate, are Carville and Obama "out of touch" and on the wrong side of history? Or do they represent a vestigial voice of sanity that survives among some Democrats.

Have the Democrats gone way too far Left?
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

User avatar
Divine Insight
Savant
Posts: 18080
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:59 pm
Location: Here & Now
Been thanked: 15 times

Post #2

Post by Divine Insight »

The so-called "parties" of the United States of America no long exist.

The Republican party died entirely. It has been replaced by the Trump party.

The Democratic party also died in 2016.

What we have now are new Americans rising up to take the challenge of starting new parties. They tend to keep the same old names, but the names are just labels and don't mean much of anything anymore.

It appears that in the so-called "Democratic camp" we'll be given a single choice to vote for in November. Whoever that turns out to be will have his or her own agenda.

Trump will most likely run on the so-called "Republican side" because any other Republican candidates who dare to challenge him will quickly be thrown under the Trump Bus.

So come next fall don't be thinking Democrat of Republican. Because those labels are meaningless. Next fall you'll need to vote for Trump or whoever is running against him.

I can tell you right now that next fall I'm going to be voting for a straight "Democratic Ticket". I don't care who's on it.

Anything will be better than another four years of Trump. At least that much we can count on.

I'll vote for Sanders, Buttigieg, Warren, Biden, Bloomberg or anyone else who happens to become the candidate by fall.

So this fall I'm voting straight "Democratic" ticket. The party name is meaningless. But thankfully the label will still be there so we can vote against everything Trump in one fell swoop. :D
[center]Image
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]

User avatar
historia
Guru
Posts: 2039
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 6:41 pm
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 148 times

Re: Today's Left wing Democrat party.

Post #3

Post by historia »

Divine Insight wrote:
The so-called "parties" of the United States of America no long exist.
Indeed, they never did exist -- at least not as ideologically-consistent parties.

For that you need to turn to a parliamentary system, which can sustain multiple, ideologically-consistent political parties, who, in turn, form governing coalitions after each election.

The American system doesn't operate in that way. This was pointed out in a recent piece in New York Magazine by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez:
Ocasio-Cortez wrote:
In any other country, Joe Biden and I would not be in the same party, but in America, we are.
That quote created a bit of a stir in the media when it was first published, but it's actually a rather banal observation. In the United States, we have essentially two pre-election coalitions organized as political parties. And within those two coalitions -- as with any coalition -- there are multiple factions, one or more of which can rise to a leading role within the party.

Trump led a populist faction to the top of the Republican party in 2016.

A populist faction within the Democratic party would like to do the same, but has not, to date, been quite as successful.

Consider, for example, that, in that same interview, Ocasio-Cortez makes the exact opposite point that ElijahJohn did in the OP: She laments the fact that the Democratic party leaders are overly differential to moderate members -- the ones who flipped largely suburban districts from red to blue in 2018, which gave the Democrats control of the House.

Far from being a "vestigial voice" in the party, those moderates are driving much of the agenda in the House. Although you'd be forgiven for thinking otherwise, since both the progressive and conservative media (for very different reasons) have focused an outsized portion of their attention this past year on AOC and a small number of progressives who won deep-blue districts.

That progressive wing does have a bigger profile in the presidential election with Bernie Sanders (and to a lesser degree Elizabeth Warren), although at this point mostly because the other factions of the Democratic coalition are splitting their vote among a multitude of other candidates.

Menotu
Sage
Posts: 530
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:34 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Today's Left wing Democrat party.

Post #4

Post by Menotu »

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

IMO, anything to the extreme is bad in the long run, be it liberal or conservative. People spend too much time dividing in to camps. This closes their minds to things outside their wheelhouse and does nothing for the vast majority of people are more towards the middle of the spectrum

Gracchus
Apprentice
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:09 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Today's Left wing Democrat party.

Post #5

Post by Gracchus »

[Replying to post 4 by Menotu]

Well of course extremes destabilize. But if you wish to stabilize a system that has gone too far toward one extreme you have to set off toward the other extreme to restabilize the system. And to meet changing conditions it is sometimes necessary to fundamentally change the system in order to stabilize it. Capitalism is destroying the stability of society and the ecosystem. It resists regulation by corrupting the regulators. It is time to restrain it until it is squeezed nearly out of existence, loses its power to corrupt and everyone finally acknowledges that greed is not good for the individual or the society.

:study:

2Dbunk
Site Supporter
Posts: 838
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:39 pm
Location: East of Eden

Re: Today's Left wing Democrat party.

Post #6

Post by 2Dbunk »

historia wrote:
Divine Insight wrote:
The so-called "parties" of the United States of America no long exist.
Indeed, they never did exist -- at least not as ideologically-consistent parties.

For that you need to turn to a parliamentary system, which can sustain multiple, ideologically-consistent political parties, who, in turn, form governing coalitions after each election.

The American system doesn't operate in that way. This was pointed out in a recent piece in New York Magazine by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez:
Ocasio-Cortez wrote:
In any other country, Joe Biden and I would not be in the same party, but in America, we are.[\quote]
I think you've hit upon something here: The parliamentary system of democracy would have sidestepped the debacle of the past three years in that when Trump's popularity kept edging lower a vote of confidence could have kept the train on the track. Trump would have faced corrective measures instead of just oppositional whining!
What good is truth if its value is not more than unproven, handed-down faith?

One believes things because one is conditioned to believe them. -Aldous Huxley

Fear within the Religious will always be with them ... as long as they are fearful of death.

User avatar
amortalman
Site Supporter
Posts: 476
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:35 am
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Today's Left wing Democrat party.

Post #7

Post by amortalman »

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

I think the Democratic party has definitely gone way too far left. Socialism has found fertile soil there and is growing like weeds. It's encouraging however that the boisterous Carville is speaking out against it. I think there are still many in the Dem party that still have some common sense and shun socialism. Let's certainly hope so.

koko

Re: Today's Left wing Democrat party.

Post #8

Post by koko »

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]



Democrats are no further "left" today than they were under FDR. By contrast, the Republican party today often makes Senator Joe McCarthy look like a liberal.

For example, nowhere in the DNC platform did the party call for the end to the borders. By contrast, it was Republicans under Reagan and Bush II who opened the borders to illegals. Not only did the GOP refuse to close the borders, they refused to prosecute companies who hired illegals. Had they done so the problem would have been solved over night.

As for the notion of felons voting rights, it will be remembered that the states practice selective enforcement of the laws. This means that while minorities do not commit the majority of crimes, they are the ones prosecuted and disproportionately convicted for crimes. The result is disenfranchisement which no honest or right thinking person wants.

Then there is the question of socialism. Some on the right believe that the Dems practice or advocate this ideology. But do they? A fair reading of history will show that our Founding Fathers advocated "socialist" reforms such as Social Security (Thomas Paine), free college (Jefferson), universal health care (Jefferson), and the building of infrastructure (Washington & Hamilton) long before anyone ever heard of the word "socialism". While these Founders put much of these policies into practice such as Governor DeWitt Clinton in New York who built up the water ways which ultimately made the Great Lakes as "great" as they became, all this was done before Karl
Marx was born. How then can anyone be called "Marxist" for advocating reforms that came into existence before the founder of this ideology even walked the earth?

I have my conflicts with both parties. But just as I would not call Republicans the fascist party, I would not call the Democrats the socialist party. It is very easy to throw labels on people but a fair reading of history will show that such categorization is unwarranted.

Donray
Guru
Posts: 1122
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:25 pm
Location: CA

Post #9

Post by Donray »

We have the socialist party and the Christin party. We need a financial conservative party.

User avatar
Divine Insight
Savant
Posts: 18080
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:59 pm
Location: Here & Now
Been thanked: 15 times

Post #10

Post by Divine Insight »

In America today, there is no Republican party. The Republican party no longer exists. Radical Trump extremists have replaced the Republican party.

If we want to continue to call Trump lackeys "Republicans" then it's the Republican party that has become extreme right-wing.

Many former Republicans have quit the "Republican party" precisely because they no longer see it reflecting the values they once saw the Republican party representing.

I agree with Ocasio-Cortez that even what we call the Democratic party isn't well-defined.

The so-called "Democratic Party" would be far different depending on which Democratic candidate becomes President. And, of course, currently it appears that will be Joe Biden. However, things would have been radically different had the Democratic nominee been Bernie Sanders, or Pete Buttigieg, etc.

It's unfortunate that younger candidates aren't more common. I'm not the least bit thrilled with Joe Biden. He represents the "same old same old". He just going to try to continue moving forward with the same mindset of the last few decades. In short Joe Biden represents "No Change". At least in terms of what the government policies have been over the last several decades.

Donald Trump did indeed represents change, but in a totally wrong direction. He represents a change toward insanity, chaos and division. With Donald Trump in charge the "United States of America" had become the "Divided States of America". And his policies are inhumane, as well as being anti-global.

In today's world it truly is insane to try to move away from globalism. That's suicide.

So while Joe Biden is a huge disappointment in terms of moving forward to where we need to be, at least he represents a return to sanity. He'll at least get us back on track again. Then perhaps in 2024 we can maybe get some new blood who will take us into a true future era.

And that's not likely to be a so-called "Republican" or a "Conservative", because neither of those ideologies are moving forward, they are both backward ideologies that are trying to move backward toward the dark ages. They want to ignore the problems of race, and financial inequality. They want to ignore climate change. They want to ignore globalization. They want to ignore personal freedoms and human rights. They are just a dead ideology that have no place in the future. Those ideologies will not survive into the future they aren't growing. Instead they are just trying to cling to the past when racism and religious bigotry ruled. There was no threat of climate change. And pretending that America is the best nation on earth seemed to make some sort of sense.

All of that is dead, and isn't likely to ever be restored. Not sure why anyone would even want to restore it to be honest about it. That would be like trying to go back and restore the Civil War to have the South win the war. That would have been terrible.
[center]Image
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]

Post Reply