Christianity is in the new again, and this time it's good news!
Question for Debate: Did Mitt Romney come up with an apologetic that allows him to respect himself in the morning (or any time of the day)?
When I heard of what Mitt Romney did bravely standing up for truth in the senate trial to remove President Trump from office, I was very impressed with his personal integrity. He didn't try to dodge the issue but faced it head-on. I didn't fail to notice that he attributed this integrity to his brand of Christianity. He said that he swore an oath before the God he believes in to uphold the law, and therefore he must uphold the law. No excuses--no phony rationalizations. Senator Romney believes in a god that holds him to conduct himself in such a way as to respect the truth.
Whether he realizes it or not, Senator Romney did much more to further Christian apologetics than all the Josh McDowells, William Lane Craigs, and CS Lewises put together. He demonstrated through action--and not just a lot of words--that Christianity in at least some isolated instances can do some good inspiring at least one man to respect the truth and the law.
It's a great lesson for all apologists. Demonstrate your apologetics through actions and not just a lot of hot air.
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A Great Apologetic from Mitt Romney
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Re: A Great Apologetic from Mitt Romney
Post #2[Replying to post 1 by Jagella]
Because you see, it would make no difference whatsoever, as to how Christianity may inspire someone to live. If Christianity is false, it is false, no matter how folks live who may adhere to it. The only thing that would matter is, the facts, and evidence in support of a claim, no matter how those who claim to adhere would live their life.
But again, it is not surprising in the least to understand one who would have been convinced Christianity was true at one time, with no facts, and evidence, coming to these sort of conclusions, because although the mind has changed, the thinking still seems to remain the same.
It is not shocking at all to hear someone who was once convinced Christianity to be true, who now wants to insist there would be no evidence in support of Christianity saying such things, and thinking in this way. In fact, it is exactly what I would expect.Whether he realizes it or not, Senator Romney did much more to further Christian apologetics than all the Josh McDowells, William Lane Craigs, and CS Lewises put together. He demonstrated through action--and not just a lot of words--that Christianity in at least some isolated instances can do some good inspiring at least one man to respect the truth and the law.
It's a great lesson for all apologists. Demonstrate your apologetics through actions and not just a lot of hot air.
Because you see, it would make no difference whatsoever, as to how Christianity may inspire someone to live. If Christianity is false, it is false, no matter how folks live who may adhere to it. The only thing that would matter is, the facts, and evidence in support of a claim, no matter how those who claim to adhere would live their life.
But again, it is not surprising in the least to understand one who would have been convinced Christianity was true at one time, with no facts, and evidence, coming to these sort of conclusions, because although the mind has changed, the thinking still seems to remain the same.
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Re: A Great Apologetic from Mitt Romney
Post #4[Replying to post 2 by Realworldjack]
"By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit." -- Matthew 11:16-17 NIV
Religion, like opium, comforts some and enslaves others. And many of those it comforts become enslaved. So, it seems some trees (and flowers) bear both kinds of fruit, and sometimes fig trees don't bear fruit at all.
It is all very confusing.
"By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit." -- Matthew 11:16-17 NIV
Religion, like opium, comforts some and enslaves others. And many of those it comforts become enslaved. So, it seems some trees (and flowers) bear both kinds of fruit, and sometimes fig trees don't bear fruit at all.
It is all very confusing.
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Re: A Great Apologetic from Mitt Romney
Post #5Actually this has nothing at all to do with apologetics. Apologetics is about offering up good reasons to believe in a particular faith. Mitt Romney did none of that. All he did was proclaim that he does indeed have faith.Jagella wrote: It's a great lesson for all apologists. Demonstrate your apologetics through actions and not just a lot of hot air.
So this has nothing to do with apologetics.
Moreover, it's shouldn't be considered admirable that Mitt Romney stood up for truth, but rather it should be considered a extremely disgusting and hypocritical that a large majority of Republicans who also claim to be religious refused to stand up for truth.
People like Mitt Romney should be the norm, not the exception. This is truly what is sad.
Moreover, look at how many atheists support the truth too?
A person shouldn't need to believe in a God in order to stand up for truth.
So no, it's not admirable that Mitt Romney did the right thing, but instead it's disgusting that the vast majority of Republican senators refused to honor their oath. Whether they consider that oath to be made to God, or simply an oath they made to the American people.
Religious Republicans violated the oath twice over. Once to God, and once to the American people.
Of course once they have decided that an oath to God is meaningless, there's little chance that they would give a hoot about being truthful with their fellow Americans.
So no, Mitt Romney is not a "shinning example" of Christianity, as even atheists already know what Christianity supposedly stands for. It's the rest of the Republicans who are a disgrace to their religion and to their country.
[center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
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Re: A Great Apologetic from Mitt Romney
Post #6Naturally, I disagree. Mitt Romney showed his true colours in one of the single most narcissistic displays I have seen in recent history. It's on par with exPM of Australia Kevin Rudd apologising to the aborigines. Deep down for conservatives, we want to belong, most republicans are actually centrist democrats now. It's just how skewed reality is that Mitt is a republican.Jagella wrote: Christianity is in the new again, and this time it's good news!
Question for Debate: Did Mitt Romney come up with an apologetic that allows him to respect himself in the morning (or any time of the day)?
When I heard of what Mitt Romney did bravely standing up for truth in the senate trial to remove President Trump from office, I was very impressed with his personal integrity. He didn't try to dodge the issue but faced it head-on. I didn't fail to notice that he attributed this integrity to his brand of Christianity. He said that he swore an oath before the God he believes in to uphold the law, and therefore he must uphold the law. No excuses--no phony rationalizations. Senator Romney believes in a god that holds him to conduct himself in such a way as to respect the truth.
Whether he realizes it or not, Senator Romney did much more to further Christian apologetics than all the Josh McDowells, William Lane Craigs, and CS Lewises put together. He demonstrated through action--and not just a lot of words--that Christianity in at least some isolated instances can do some good inspiring at least one man to respect the truth and the law.
It's a great lesson for all apologists. Demonstrate your apologetics through actions and not just a lot of hot air.
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He actually did only express hot air. A lot of left-leaning people think talking is action these days.It's a great lesson for all apologists. Demonstrate your apologetics through actions and not just a lot of hot air.
But your point is valid. I pray all Christians on this site are showing the fruit of the Spirit in their lives.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
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"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."
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Re: A Great Apologetic from Mitt Romney
Post #7No difference to whom?Realworldjack wrote: Because you see, it would make no difference whatsoever, as to how Christianity may inspire someone to live.
But it's keeping lots of Christians from committing atrocities, regardless of its truth or falsity. There is value in that, no?The only thing that would matter is, the facts, and evidence in support of a claim, no matter how those who claim to adhere would live their life.
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Re: A Great Apologetic from Mitt Romney
Post #8Bust Nak wrote:No difference to whom?Realworldjack wrote: Because you see, it would make no difference whatsoever, as to how Christianity may inspire someone to live.
But it's keeping lots of Christians from committing atrocities, regardless of its truth or falsity. There is value in that, no?The only thing that would matter is, the facts, and evidence in support of a claim, no matter how those who claim to adhere would live their life.
You are correct! I keep forgetting about those who were once convinced Christianity would be true, with no facts, and evidence in support, who only look to believe in what they would rather believe, which means facts, evidence, reason, and the actual truth never enters into the equations for such folks?No difference to whom?
This is actually true, and something I have said myself. In other words, since we know we have many former Christians, who admit to not putting a whole lot of effort into thinking before making the decision to become a Christian, then we can imagine that there are still many Christians still today who are not doing a whole lot of thinking, and Christianity, and the world would be better off, if this sort of Christians would actually reject Christianity, until we are left with only those Christians who actually think.But it's keeping lots of Christians from committing atrocities, regardless of its truth or falsity. There is value in that, no?
In this way, it would be only unbelievers who would be under the impression that the way in which someone behaves, gives validity to the truth of what they claim to believe, as opposed to the actual facts, and evidence which may support what they claim to believe.
However, in the "real world" facts, evidence, and reason matters, and the way in which one who may adhere to what they believe, adds no validity whatsoever to what they claim to believe.
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Re: A Great Apologetic from Mitt Romney
Post #9But what about those who do take facts, evidence, reason, and the actual truth into consideration? Are you presuming that it would be no difference to such people too?Realworldjack wrote: You are correct! I keep forgetting about those who were once convinced Christianity would be true, with no facts, and evidence in support, who only look to believe in what they would rather believe, which means facts, evidence, reason, and the actual truth never enters into the equations for such folks?
It's true you say? That suggest that it does make a difference to you, yet you claim it does not. Care to explain what I am missing?This is actually true, and something I have said myself.
What about an influx of Christians who don't think? How would you reverse the trend of Christianity being filled with those who under the impression that the way in which someone behaves, gives validity to the truth of what they claim to believe?In other words, since we know we have many former Christians, who admit to not putting a whole lot of effort into thinking before making the decision to become a Christian, then we can imagine that there are still many Christians still today who are not doing a whole lot of thinking, and Christianity, and the world would be better off, if this sort of Christians would actually reject Christianity, until we are left with only those Christians who actually think. In this way, it would be only unbelievers who would be under the impression that the way in which someone behaves, gives validity to the truth of what they claim to believe, as opposed to the actual facts, and evidence which may support what they claim to believe.
Right, but this doesn't seem to have much to do with the fact that the way in which Christianity may inspire someone to live, adds value to whatsoever to what they claim to believe.However, in the "real world" facts, evidence, and reason matters, and the way in which one who may adhere to what they believe, adds no validity whatsoever to what they claim to believe.
Re: A Great Apologetic from Mitt Romney
Post #10When I started this thread, it was never my intention to debate politics. The only "politics" in the OP is perhaps the fact that Mitt Romney just so happens to be a politician who opposed the President. That's it. Although I never mentioned politics in the OP, I did mention Christianity, God, Christian apologetics, and the names of three Christian apologists.Divine Insight wrote:Actually this has nothing at all to do with apologetics. Apologetics is about offering up good reasons to believe in a particular faith. Mitt Romney did none of that. All he did was proclaim that he does indeed have faith.Jagella wrote: It's a great lesson for all apologists. Demonstrate your apologetics through actions and not just a lot of hot air.
Perhaps I overestimate my readers' abilities to comprehend what they read.
In any case, contrary to what you say, Mitt Romney did score one for his Christian faith. He demonstrated that his belief in his god has inspired him, in the face of opposition, to do the right thing and act according to what he had good reason to believe is true.
People of all persuasions including atheists often fail to support the truth. I do agree, however, that Christians turning a blind eye to the truth is a big problem for Christian apologetics....it should be considered a extremely disgusting and hypocritical that a large majority of Republicans who also claim to be religious refused to stand up for truth.
I never said that atheists don't ever stand up for the truth. It is irrelevant to the topic of the debate.Moreover, look at how many atheists support the truth too?
Yes. Of course. But as long as a person respects the truth, then their reason for doing so isn't always important.A person shouldn't need to believe in a God in order to stand up for truth.