The rise of the Independents (unaffiliated voters)

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AgnosticBoy
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The rise of the Independents (unaffiliated voters)

Post #1

Post by AgnosticBoy »

I want to discuss the validity of the independents and their effect on the elections.

The effect of independent voters
According to Gallup, 42% of Americans identify as an 'independent' voter, while 30% identify as Republican and 27% as Democrat. This shows that most Americans are not fully committed to either party since the majority are independents. If I broke these stats down state-by-state (as opposed viewing the national average), then this majority stat goes away because registered independents are not heavily concentrated in any state (except New Hampshire). Instead, you'll find states with a big concentration of Democrats or majority of Republicans, with independents occupying some percentage across all or most states. While there is no heavily "independent" party state, but here's where or when these voters will make a difference:
1. In swing states the population of Republicans and Democrats tend to be close in number. For example, the state of Florida has about 5 million registered Democrats and 5 million Republican voters BUT it also has about 3.5 million independent voters (no party affiliation). Here it is easy to see the effect of independent voters if or when the majority of them flocks to one party over the other.

The validity of the Independent voters

I should say that independent voters do not belong to any party. The rationale behind many independent voters is that the main parties have become corrupt, extreme, and too partisan. Being an independent gives you the freedom of mind to agree with and praise a politician like Trump when he's right and to condemn him when he's wrong. To be in any party, it seems you have to remain in a straight jacket and accept the entire political platform of ideas from your party, and then be against all of the ideas of the other party. If you don't believe me then try being a registered Democrat, especially one running for office, and acknowledge anything good from Trump and see the reaction you'll get.

As an independent, you don't necessarily have new views as a third party would. Instead, you can adopt the "good" views from BOTH parties while also coming up with your own views.

For the record, I was a lifelong Democrat, and I'm honestly considering voting for Trump. He seems less extreme compared to the competition. He is the lesser of two evils, imho.

For debate:
1. Do you agree or disagree that independent voters have big effect on elections?
2. Is the thinking behind the independent voter valid? Is it reasonable to remain unaffiliated?
3. Will the number of independent voters continue to increase ?

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Re: The rise of the Independents (unaffiliated voters)

Post #51

Post by Elijah John »

AgnosticBoy wrote: I'm by no means trying to get anyone to vote for Trump. But what I disagree with are those who think putting in a Democrat would do much better. When you factor in the problems from BOTH (Dems. and Repubs.) sides, then perhaps you can begin to see why I can "tolerate" Trump.

One economic accomplishment he's done is with his trade deals with China, Mexico, and Canada. He's received bipartisan support for the USMCA deal which is expected to keep and create jobs, as opposed to the trend of losing jobs to Mexico. Trump's deal with China, although in its initial phases, would help American farmers as China promises to buy some 200 billion worth of American farmer products.

I'm only pointing this out to show that there are some Trump policies that are benefitting the working class. I'm not sure if you're under the impression that everything the Democrats do are perfect so I'll also bring up one negative area:

One place the Democrats are very weak is on immigration. Some are okay allowing illegal immigrants to stay in the US and even cross the border without penalty. I'm not in favor of separating kids from parents, but I do find a problem with letting every single immigrant into the country and then having to bear the burden of paying for their medical needs among other things. If you have this standard, any terrorist can come across the border or why not just let everybody (Asians, Africans, Arabs, etc) and all the poor people of the World come through our Southern border? We can pay for all of them, right? (… when we can't even afford to pay for own American homeless and underprivileged kids in our own country!).
These all sound like very good and valid reasons to re-elect President Trump right there! And for the record, I am an Independent. And being an Independent makes a whole lot of sense, seeing that neither party is perfect, and very few people agree with every single plank in either party's platform.
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Re: The rise of the Independents (unaffiliated voters)

Post #52

Post by Purple Knight »

Elijah John wrote:These all sound like very good and valid reasons to re-elect President Trump right there!
Well, if you're selfish, and care more about your own country and people than other countries and people.

This is the heart of the issue.

I'm not really putting down on it too much since it seems like everyone else is assumed and allowed to be selfish. Well of course Mauritania should look out for number one; well of course Israel should look out for number one.

While it does seem like the standard changes when it's America or Europe, and that it has nothing to do with wealth or lack thereof, there's not some moral principle that demands the standard be the same. I have a thread about this in Right and Wrong, and no, there's no guarantee of an equal standard. The same act can be permissible for one and impermissible for another.

The standard for America is don't be selfish. Care about others before yourself. It's not fair, but it is right. No, it's not cool for other people to be starving so we can keep our jobs.

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Re: The rise of the Independents (unaffiliated voters)

Post #53

Post by AgnosticBoy »

As an independent, I no longer waste my time focusing on or arguing about what Democrats and Republicans have done. I don't support any parties but rather i support whatever is good policy. Focusing mostly on policy (gun laws, immigration, national security, economy, etc) regardless of political party leads me to like/hate views from both sides.

I will vote for the candidate whose policies I agree with the most.

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Re: The rise of the Independents (unaffiliated voters)

Post #54

Post by Bust Nak »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:11 pm For the record, I was a lifelong Democrat, and I'm honestly considering voting for Trump...
Had you priorities done a 180 recently? I ask because you mentioned "gun laws, immigration, national security, economy" and those sounded very much like partisan issues.
1. Do you agree or disagree that independent voters have big effect on elections?
Don't know. Got any research that says one way or the other? Being unaffiliated is one thing, turning up to vote is quite another.
2. Is the thinking behind the independent voter valid? Is it reasonable to remain unaffiliated?
As a voter, it doesn't matter. Registered Republicans can vote Democrats, and Registered Democrats can vote Republicans. If you are running, then good luck being unaffiliated. America is trapped in two party system.
3. Will the number of independent voters continue to increase?
I guess so.

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