The federal government's response to COVID-19

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The federal government's response to COVID-19

Post #1

Post by bjs »

To what degree is the federal government responsible for the current crisis people are facing?

Have elected federal officials in your nation provided effective, wise and clear leadership during this pandemic?

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Post #11

Post by Elijah John »

Danmark wrote: Either way, it will be a long time before the rest of the world can imagine America being great again.'
Is that why they turn to us en masse to crash our borders? Is disrespect for the US the reason that so many countries are all to ready to receive our foreign aid and turn to us for that aid? Is that why counties under attack turn to the US for help? Is that why countries like China habitually steal our intellectual property, and flood our universities with students? Is that why countries like China practice "birth tourism" and send women who disguise their pregnancies in order to deliver here in the US so that they will have an anchor in this country?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_tourism

One would think if they hate the US and President Trump so much, none of that would be happening.

Or else they are hypocrites who have contempt instead of gratitude, and bite the hand that feeds them.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Post #12

Post by Elijah John »

[Replying to post 8 by Danmark]

Yeah, sometimes President Trump says stupid things, has no filter and expounds with steam of consciousness ramblings, but seriously, would Joe Biden be any better?!

Anyone the Democrats put up, or would put up would be worse, not better. They would ruin the country with contempt for law enforcement, authoritarian edicts, identity politics, unfettered immigration, reparations, abortion on demand, "gender theory" education which usurps parental rights , severe infringements on free speech, free health care and safety net benefits for illegal aliens, an unaffordable and very impractical "green new deal", weak national defense, surrendering American sovereignty to foreign entities and organizations, international trade treaties which put Americans at a disadvantage, etc, etc.

And don't forget the Democrat standard of "guilty until proven innocent" as demonstrated in the Kavannagh hearings, by such people as Kammala Harris, Amy Klobuchar, Maize Hirono, etc, etc.

Would such a standard be applied to Joe Biden, and the allegations of rape against him by Tara Reade? I doubt it.

One good thing, I have to admit, the Democrats might stop the endless, frivolous investigations at millions of dollars of taxpayer expense, were they to win the white house. They wouldn't have any reason too anymore, right? Trump would be gone, Biden would be in power. After all, these were mostly if not entirely political endeavors to begin with.

Here's a novel ideal, why not attempt to win the white house by offering the average working person, citizen something that will actually improve their lives?
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Post #13

Post by Divine Insight »

Elijah John wrote:
Danmark wrote: Either way, it will be a long time before the rest of the world can imagine America being great again.'
Is that why they turn to us en masse to crash our borders? Is disrespect for the US the reason that so many countries are all to ready to receive our foreign aid and turn to us for that aid? Is that why counties under attack turn to the US for help? Is that why countries like China habitually steal our intellectual property, and flood our universities with students? Is that why countries like China practice "birth tourism" and send women who disguise their pregnancies in order to deliver here in the US so that they will have an anchor in this country?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_tourism

One would think if they hate the US and President Trump so much, none of that would be happening.

Or else they are hypocrites who have contempt instead of gratitude, and bite the hand that feeds them.
Everything you've said is about the USA that "used to be" before Trump destroyed it. All that is rapidly changing. In fact, if things continue to go in the direction that Trump has us going it won't be long before Americans will be fleeing the United States trying to migrate to other countries to escape the failed Nation of the USA.

Are you not paying attention? The United States of American was originally based on the idea of the states being United. But Trump has divided the United States and has placed the States in fierce competition with each other. So Trump has created the "Divided States of America".

The only thing that is keeping us together at this point is the cooperation of the individual states with each other in spite of Trumps attempt to divide the USA.

But yeah, everything you said about the USA is how it was before Trump. But Trump is rapidly bringing an end to that. The only hope for the USA to get back on Track now is Joe Biden. If Trump wins in November that could very well be the death blow to what the USA used to be.

China has already caught up. In fact they are already ahead of the USA in many ways. So the demise of America won't be much skin off the nose of China. All it would basically do is lose a lot of consumers. But since it has created a via economy of its own it no longer needs US consumers like it used to.

Soon, everything you said about the USA will soon be true of China. And even Americans will be wanting to migrate to China in search of a better life. And China will be the one who needs to close its borders to the American migrants that are trying to flood into China.

So vote for Trump if you like the idea of becoming so desperate that you'll soon be considering migrating to China for a better life

What you seem to have missed is that America "was" Great before Trump.

Everything you mentioned was going on for decades before Trump came along and destroyed it all. Trump didn't make America Great Again. Instead he took an already Great America and destroyed it. Think about that for a while.[/b]
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Post #14

Post by Elijah John »

Divine Insight wrote:
Everything you've said is about the USA that "used to be" before Trump destroyed it. All that is rapidly changing. In fact, if things continue to go in the direction that Trump has us going it won't be long before Americans will be fleeing the United States trying to migrate to other countries to escape the failed Nation of the USA.
Pure, unfounded speculation

Hasn't happened yet. But people are fleeing California, arguably the county's most liberal state.

Why is it that cities with the highest violent crime rates are all run by liberal mayors?
Are you not paying attention? The United States of American was originally based on the idea of the states being United. But Trump has divided the United States and has placed the States in fierce competition with each other. So Trump has created the "Divided States of America".


How so, please support your claim. What makes you so sure it isn't the Democrats who are dividing America with comments like "fly over states" and "basket full of deplorables" and palpable contempt for "white men" How is that kind of Democrat rhetoric not divisive?
The only thing that is keeping us together at this point is the cooperation of the individual states with each other in spite of Trumps attempt to divide the USA.


Again, support your claim.
But yeah, everything you said about the USA is how it was before Trump.
Ah, the days of Ronald Reagan. I think that's what the President means when he says "make America great again". NOT the days of Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton. Indeed.
But Trump is rapidly bringing an end to that. The only hope for the USA to get back on Track now is Joe Biden. If Trump wins in November that could very well be the death blow to what the USA used to be.
Joe Biden would be an improvement? Are you serious? How so? What does Joe Biden believe nowadays, what are his core principles? What does he stand for? How would Joe Biden improve the life of the average American citizen?
China has already caught up. In fact they are already ahead of the USA in many ways. So the demise of America won't be much skin off the nose of China. All it would basically do is lose a lot of consumers. But since it has created a via economy of its own it no longer needs US consumers like it used to.


And that is the kind of thing President Trump is attempting to reverse, but sadly with very little, if any help from the Democrat infested House.
Soon, everything you said about the USA will soon be true of China. And even Americans will be wanting to migrate to China in search of a better life. And China will be the one who needs to close its borders to the American migrants that are trying to flood into China.
Doubtful, and actually does China welcome immigrants today? Did it ever? Do they welcome people from other races? Nearly as much as we do?
So vote for Trump if you like the idea of becoming so desperate that you'll soon be considering migrating to China for a better life
China, the land of origin for nasty viruses. (President Trump was called "racist" for pointing that out). Where they eat bats, cats and dogs. Land of wet markets, no thanks.

It's Biden who has ties to China, not Trump. And he called the President "xenophobic" for banning flights from China when the pandemic was spreading.

One thing that does concern me, is that instead of reacting like civilized countries like Sweden, many of our local leaders, governors and mayors are employing Chinese-like authoritarian measures such as fining anyone 300 to 1000 dollars for not wearing a face mask outside. (Cambridge, Somerville, and Peabody Mass, etc) And Govenor Gretchen Whitmer roping off sections of Walmart lest a consumer would buy a non-food related item.) These are petty tyrants and despots who revel in their newfound power, and prey upon people's fear. They are ruining the economy and plunging people into desperate circumstances. And Cuomo is not without blame. He transferred Covid 19 people from hospitals, back to nursing homes accelerating the crisis for the most vulnerable.
What you seem to have missed is that America "was" Great before Trump.

Everything you mentioned was going on for decades before Trump came along and destroyed it all. Trump didn't make America Great Again. Instead he took an already Great America and destroyed it. Think about that for a while.[/b]
No, it was liberals like Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton who began our downward trend. Goals 2000 where children would no longer be required to learn about Paul Revere, but would instead be required to learn about the founder of N.O.W, selling missile guidance systems to China, etc, etc.

But at least Bill Clinton had his "Sister Soulja" moment. Doubtful any of today's Democrats would have that much spine, especially doubtful today's Joe Biden would. The old Joe may have, but the new leftist Joe? No way.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Post #15

Post by Divine Insight »

Elijah John wrote: Pure, unfounded speculation
Hardly. Everything you said about America has been true for decades. It has absolutely nothing at all to do with Donald Trump.

Also, there is no speculation in what I said about China either. Anyone who's been paying attention will recognize that China is currently at the leading edge of technology. In fact, China is actually ahead of the USA in technology especially related to AI or Artificial Intelligence.

China has also surpassed the USA in its ability to keep track of individual citizens via smart-phone and other electronic technologies. This is what enables them to track the spread of coronavirus in China.

In the USA we not only don't have that technology firmly in place, but Americans are even rebellious against having their privacy invaded. So the type of things that China excels at are difficult if not impossible to even implement in the USA.

We were already in a cultural position of being overtaken by China in terms of technology and economics. Trump's policies has only accelerated China's superiority in these areas while decapitating any strengths that the USA had before Trump became president.

Joe Biden may not be able to save us from our natural demise, but Trump is accelerating our demise in so many ways.

By the way, this has absolutely nothing to do with the artificial war between "Republicans versus Democrats". That's the fallacy that Trump would like you to believe. Trump has already destroyed what used to be the Republican Party. Most of the wiser Republicans have already recognized this and many of them have left the party entirely. Those who have stayed on have only done so in the hope that the Republican Party can be resurrected after Trump leaves office. But that's truly a naive position.

Don't fall for the fake wars of "Republicans vs Democrats" or "Conservatives vs Liberals". Those are just meaningless labels that have nothing to do with reality.

Those are the kinds of destructive propaganda you'll get from places like Fox Fake News.

Trump is already losing in the polls for the November election and that's only going to skyrocket as more and more Trump supporters realize they've been conned.

I don't think Americans are going to make the same mistake twice. Everyone knows that putting Trump in the office of the presidency was a grave mistake.

The main reason that happened was not because anyone liked Trump or thought he would make a good president. The only reason it happened is because so many people didn't want Hillary as president. And I can't even blame them for that. I didn't like Hillary either. But at least I recognize that she would have represented more maturity and intelligence than Trump.

In any case, Hillary's not running this time around. So there's no one to save Trump for another term. If it wasn't for Hillary Trump would have never become president in the first place. Just about anyone else would have beaten Trump by a clean margin.

You can be guaranteed that Americans won't make the same mistake twice in a row. Even those who don't like Joe Biden can see that he's at least a mature adult. Trump truly is like an immature 5-year-old. That's not a meaningless insult. It actually describes how he behaves.

Why would you support another 4 years of having an immature 5-year-old leading America? Do you not like America?
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Post #16

Post by Danmark »

Elijah John wrote:
Danmark wrote: Either way, it will be a long time before the rest of the world can imagine America being great again.'
Is that why they turn to us en masse to crash our borders? Is disrespect for the US the reason that so many countries are all to ready to receive our foreign aid and turn to us for that aid? Is that why counties under attack turn to the US for help? Is that why countries like China habitually steal our intellectual property, and flood our universities with students? Is that why countries like China practice "birth tourism" and send women who disguise their pregnancies in order to deliver here in the US so that they will have an anchor in this country?
Mainly you are not talking about current America. Trump has openly, voluntarily opted out of world leadership. He's done the same thing with the pandemic, opted out and said, "Let the States do it. I take no responsibility."

Trump has exposed the faults in the 'free market' portion of our mixed economy. He has demonstrated the weakness of Republican ideology. So has the virus.

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Re:

Post #17

Post by historia »

Elijah John wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:31 pm
Yeah, sometimes President Trump says stupid things, has no filter and expounds with steam of consciousness ramblings, but seriously, would Joe Biden be any better?!
Yes. Without question.

The President of the United States just spent Memorial Day weekend promoting a debunked conspiracy theory that a political commentator he doesn't like, Joe Scarborough, murdered a woman who worked for him 20 years ago, despite the pleas from her family that the President not use her death for his own personal grievances.

In between that, he claimed mail-in voting was a ploy by the Democrats to steal the election -- a transparent attempt to cast doubt on the election results this November should he lose.

This is neither normal nor acceptable behavior for the President of the United States.

So, yeah, on that score, Joe Biden (or really anyone else) would be better.
Elijah John wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:31 pm
Anyone the Democrats put up, or would put up would be worse, not better. They would ruin the country with contempt for law enforcement, authoritarian edicts, identity politics, unfettered immigration, reparations, abortion on demand, "gender theory" education which usurps parental rights , severe infringements on free speech, free health care and safety net benefits for illegal aliens, an unaffordable and very impractical "green new deal", weak national defense, surrendering American sovereignty to foreign entities and organizations, international trade treaties which put Americans at a disadvantage, etc, etc.
Have you considered the possibility that the media sources you are consuming have a vested interest in painting politicians on the other side of the aisle as being far more radical than they actually are precisely to discourage you from voting for them?

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Re: Re:

Post #18

Post by Elijah John »

historia wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 12:41 am Have you considered the possibility that the media sources you are consuming have a vested interest in painting politicians on the other side of the aisle as being far more radical than they actually are precisely to discourage you from voting for them?
Sounds like you're taking about CNN. That's what CNN does. I watch them too, I also watched the Democrat debates, first hand, primary source unfiltered information. I've heard enough from the pandering, identity-politics Democrat party to make a very informed decision against them. They are all for wide open borders, they are all for reparations, and their extremism culminating in Elizabeth Warren's teary eyed promise to have a transgender 9 year old approve her cabinet choices. Most of them tried to out-liberal, out race-bait, and out-pander each other. It was sickening.

In spite of Trump's objectional personality, I will hold my nose and vote for him again. He, at least, has (mostly) sensible, common sense policies, and a capable Vice President and cabinet. I agree with most of his policies, but wish he had more courage of his convictions to actually implement them.

You want to talk about tolerance? Tom Perez chairman of the DNC said that pro-life people are not welcome in the Democratic party. Democrat Governor Andrew Cuomo said the same thing about pro-life people not being welcome in New York. This from the "party of tolerance". Years ago, PA Senator Bob Casey was not allowed to speak at the Democratic National Convention because he was pro-life. Contrast this to the Republican party, where pro-choice Mayor Guiliani was welcome to run for President in the Republican party.

I see Democrat and Republican-in-name-only mayors and governors destroying the economy by their authoritarian shut-downs, and that hurts the little guy too. Widespread economic collapse kills people too. They are using the pandemic as a pretext for tyranny. Their inner tyrant comes out at times like this, and is visible for all to see.

I also see Democrat mayors indulging looters and rioters and having their police departments stand-down while their cities are in flames. Their decisions destroy cities, lives and perpetuate poverty. I just heard University of Md. Prof Jason Nichols justify the lawlessness in Minnesota by saying that words matter, and we should not call the violence "rioting" but rather an "insurrection" Jason Nichols is part of the problem. He did not condemn the rioters and looters. And for the record, I do condemn the killing of George Floyd, and think the 4 officers should be prosecuted for manslaughter at the very least, or preferably second degree murder. (edit to add, Minneapolis mayor MN gov have called for help to control the rioters, from State Police the National Guard, but the mayor's first response was to allow Target, Auto-Zone, Wendy's a housing project and several other business and buildings to be looted, set afire and destroyed.)

I see the Democrats wanting to spend millions if not billions of taxpayer money on armies of "contact tracers". I see the Democrat House bill including direct payments to illegal aliens and subsidies for "pot shops".

Yeah, I've seen more than enough to vote against rhinos and Democrats every chance I get.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Re: Re:

Post #19

Post by Elijah John »

historia wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 12:41 am
Elijah John wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:31 pm
Yeah, sometimes President Trump says stupid things, has no filter and expounds with steam of consciousness ramblings, but seriously, would Joe Biden be any better?!
Yes. Without question.

The President of the United States just spent Memorial Day weekend promoting a debunked conspiracy theory that a political commentator he doesn't like, Joe Scarborough, murdered a woman who worked for him 20 years ago, despite the pleas from her family that the President not use her death for his own personal grievances.


This is neither normal nor acceptable behavior for the President of the United States.
I agree with you here, that was despicable and I cannot and will not defend it. But I disagree that this stupid, scandalous and childish action by President Trump would make Joe Biden a better President. Yes, Trump is an embarrassment at times. But Biden would ruin the country.

And do you want to go down that road with Joe Biden? Stupid comments? I agree that most of them are not malevolent like Trump's was, but still...

If Trump wins re-election and cannot finish his term for whatever reason, we have improvement in the capable Mike Pence taking over. If Joe Biden can't finish his term, who are we going to get? The inexperienced Stacy Abrams for President? Seems a likely and scary possibility if Biden wins, but time will tell.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Re: Re:

Post #20

Post by historia »

Elijah John wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 9:59 am
historia wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 12:41 am
Elijah John wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:31 pm
Anyone the Democrats put up, or would put up would be worse, not better. They would ruin the country with contempt for law enforcement, authoritarian edicts, identity politics, unfettered immigration, reparations, abortion on demand, "gender theory" education which usurps parental rights , severe infringements on free speech, free health care and safety net benefits for illegal aliens, an unaffordable and very impractical "green new deal", weak national defense, surrendering American sovereignty to foreign entities and organizations, international trade treaties which put Americans at a disadvantage, etc, etc.
Have you considered the possibility that the media sources you are consuming have a vested interest in painting politicians on the other side of the aisle as being far more radical than they actually are precisely to discourage you from voting for them?
Sounds like you're taking about CNN. That's what CNN does.
I don't watch cable news. But I have no doubt that left-wing political commentators on CNN paint Republican politicians as being more extreme than they really are in order to discourage people from voting for them.

Consider, for example, what they did to Mitt Romney in 2012. Romney is a good, decent man and a moderate Republican, who would have been a capable president. But, during that election, many Obama supporters made him out to be some kind of far-right business oligarch who would have ushered in a Hands-Maid-Tale-like dystopia had he been elected. That was nothing but left-wing fearmongering.

Likewise, the assertion that Joe Biden will "ruin the country" because he would supposedly bring about a gender-queer, no-borders, socialist revolution -- as you are suggesting above -- sounds an awful lot like the cooked-up attacks on Romney from eight years ago. That's just right-wing fearmongering, this time being perpetrated by Trump supporters on right-leaning media outlets.
Elijah John wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 10:48 am
And do you want to go down that road with Joe Biden? Stupid comments? I agree that most of them are not malevolent like Trump's was, but still...
Would I rather have a president who occasionally says dumb things than one who maliciously spreads conspiracy theories that erode the public trust?

Without question.
Elijah John wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 9:59 am
In spite of Trump's objectional personality, I will hold my nose and vote for him again. He, at least, has (mostly) sensible, common sense policies
You can vote for whoever you like, of course. But I would add two additional variables to your voting calculus here.

First, the President needs to be a moral leader during times of crisis.

As we speak, 100,000 Americans have already died from a pandemic (with more to come), the economy is crashing, racial tensions are high, and several American cities are literally on fire. Rather than try to calm the nation, all Trump can think to do is stoke the flames with incendiary comments, because he apparently has only one mode: partisan political fighter. That is terrible for the social fabric.

Second, Trump's considerable character flaws (not just his 'personality') could have long-term negative repercussions for the Republican Party.

Many suburban voters (and, in particular, suburban women) are appalled by his behavior, and that drove large numbers of them in the 2018 mid-terms to vote against the party that put him in power. We're seeing a similar trend in the early 2020 polls.

In the long-term, then, Trump could hurt the policy objectives you want to see by turning a generation of reliable suburban voters away from the Republican party. The sooner he is out of power, the sooner Republicans can stop the bleeding.

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