Who will win the 2020 US Presidential Election?

[historia]

Early polls (137 days before the election) show Biden leading. But who wins comes November?

[AgnosticBoy]

"Finally"?

I answered your questions even before you posted them.

Your hero's cabal of vote cheating conspirators will steal the election. When that happens they will succeed in their quest to destroy the USA.

Good. Let both parties fail. America will not fail because it elects a Republican and I say that because a Democrat will make no overall difference. You think it will because it is the only viable option you have.

What a rigged system we have indeed. I look for the day a NON partisan Independent makes it to the White House.

[historia]

There are a lot of posts here and I won't read through all of them, especially from those whose views I find to be too extreme or partisan.

Fair enough. But, if you aren't going to actually read the posts in a thread, then it would be wise to refrain from making sweeping statements about what people in a thread are saying, as you did in post #19.

[AgnosticBoy]

There are a lot of posts here and I won't read through all of them, especially from those whose views I find to be too extreme or partisan.

Fair enough.

My point comes in because following my firstnpost here, the responses were resistant to my view, as if Trump had no chance of winning. So I'm being reasonable to question if some Democrats here really accept that Trump has a chance of winning. A lack of consistency in views is more of a problem than my choosing to ignore certain posts.

For the record, do you accept that Trump has a chance of winning and if so why?

[Bust Nak]

So I'm being reasonable to question if some Democrats here really accept that Trump has a chance of winning...

"Yet we find Democrats here arguing as if their predictions are infallible and all reasons offered for why Trump would win are wrong" counts as questioning if some Democrats here accept that Trump has a chance of winning?

[historia]

Fair enough. But, if you aren't going to actually read the posts in a thread, then it would be wise to refrain from making sweeping statements about what people in a thread are saying, as you did in post #19.

My point comes in because following my firstnpost here, the responses were resistant to my view

Sure, following my prediction in post #4, the responses were resistant to my view, too.

This is generally true of all the responses you are going to receive on this site -- regardless of topic -- since this is a debate site.

So I'm being reasonable to question if some Democrats here really accept that Trump has a chance of winning. A lack of consistency in views is more of a problem than my choosing to ignore certain posts.

Except you didn't pose it as a question, you made an accusation. And it is in not at all inconsistent for someone to want a particular politician to win but predict that they won't (or vice versa).

Look, you just jumped to an unfounded conclusion based on a fundamental misreading of the information. It happens to the best of us. There's no need for excuses.

For the record, do you accept that Trump has a chance of winning and if so why?

Of course, this goes without saying.

[AgnosticBoy]

[Replying to historia in post #35]

It is becoming more apparent that I have a unique perspective here. I'm coming from a non-ideological perspective - I'm an independent and agnostic. Many Dems. are ideologically-driven.

What's also apparent is that many Dems. think that Trump will lose because of all of his negatives. Have these same Democrats considered that their own party also has negatives?

It is true that the Dems. are essentially for open borders because they allow policies that can be exploited and that draws in more illegals (sanctuary cities, defunding ICE, and weak asylum laws).

It is true that Dems. are weak on security, just look at how Seattle's "autonomous zone" was allowed to happen. It was called a "festival" and was built up to become a "summer of Love" according to Seattle's Democrat mayor - although it was established through NON-peaceful protests.. A couple MURDERS later, the weak liberal mayor was pressured to close it down.

We've had plenty of Democrat presidents and I don't see how that was drastically different than a Republican presidency - we still have national and domestic threats, we still have crime, we still have poor, etc. So please spare me the fairy tale that electing a Democrat will solve all of our problems, as opposed to creating a different set of problems.

[AgnosticBoy]

Bringing up the negatives of Trump alone will appeal mostly to Democrats. Bringing up the negatives of BOTH parties will appeal to Independents. if you only want to appeal to Democrats then you will lose. Independents make up most of the electorate so I'd suggest you Dems. change your thinking and appeal to people like me if you want to win.

[koko]

[Replying to historia in post #35]

It is becoming more apparent that I have a unique perspective here. I'm coming from a non-ideological perspective - I'm an independent and agnostic. Many Dems. are ideologically-driven.

What's also apparent is that many Dems. think that Trump will lose because of all of his negatives. Have these same Democrats considered that their own party also has negatives?

It is true that the Dems. are essentially for open borders because they allow policies that can be exploited and that draws in more illegals (sanctuary cities, defunding ICE, and weak asylum laws).

It is true that Dems. are weak on security, just look at how Seattle's "autonomous zone" was allowed to happen. It was called a "festival" and was built up to become a "summer of Love" according to Seattle's Democrat mayor - although it was established through NON-peaceful protests.. A couple MURDERS later, the weak liberal mayor was pressured to close it down.

We've had plenty of Democrat presidents and I don't see how that was drastically different than a Republican presidency - we still have national and domestic threats, we still have crime, we still have poor, etc. So please spare me the fairy tale that electing a Democrat will solve all of our problems, as opposed to creating a different set of problems.

As an indy I criticize both parties where warranted. I really wasn't on this site during the Obama years and by the time I started to make political posts he was already out of office. But I was criticial of his administration on other sites.

Meanwhile since Trump is in the White House at this moment, I am free to criticize him as I would with any one else.

Re the open borders myth, history shows it was Republicans Reagan and Bush who opened the borders. The former granted blanket amnesty to them, the latter treid to do so as well until he was stopped by Republican conservatives. This is a move that was warranted. However, the problem remains that the Republicans who control the Justice Department fails to prosecute those employers who hire illegals. That is why they come with Bush/Reagan open arms. By the way, there are also illegals from Europe such as Maifiosi types who enter our borders at all times. Neither party stops them with any degree of regularity.

Re the question of weak on security, it was Bush who allowed 9/11 to take place as he allowed entry of al-Qaeda members into our land and he relaxed security at the airports. Many died as a consequence. Others died because of Bush bungling of Katrina and the 2 needless wars he caused. As for Trump, he relaxed security at the borders by allowing infected people to enter and to spread Corona virus. His incompetence has cost us over 130,000 dead Americans. You cannot possibly blame Democrats for that.


Yeah there was trouble in Seattle because of its liberal mayor. But what of the far right terrorists who pointed rifles at police and feds in Las Vegas during the tax protest? Two cops were killed. Remember the outrage back then? Or how about Timothy McVeigh and his wickedness causing the deaths of all those innocents? It remains a fact that far right errorists have burned down churches, mosques, synagogues, and killed many innocents. This worse than anything the far left has done.

Democrats may not be pristine or perfect in their politics. But the record clearly shows more economic growth, greater prosperity, and more order under Dem presidents than Republicans. That remains fact whether anyone chooses to believe it or not.

[AgnosticBoy]

As an indy I criticize both parties where warranted. I really wasn't on this site during the Obama years and by the time I started to make political posts he was already out of office. But I was criticial of his administration on other sites.

Meanwhile since Trump is in the White House at this moment, I am free to criticize him as I would with any one else.

Re the open borders myth, history shows it was Republicans Reagan and Bush who opened the borders. The former granted blanket amnesty to them, the latter treid to do so as well until he was stopped by Republican conservatives. This is a move that was warranted. However, the problem remains that the Republicans who control the Justice Department fails to prosecute those employers who hire illegals. That is why they come with Bush/Reagan open arms. By the way, there are also illegals from Europe such as Maifiosi types who enter our borders at all times. Neither party stops them with any degree of regularity.

Re the question of weak on security, it was Bush who allowed 9/11 to take place as he allowed entry of al-Qaeda members into our land and he relaxed security at the airports. Many died as a consequence. Others died because of Bush bungling of Katrina and the 2 needless wars he caused. As for Trump, he relaxed security at the borders by allowing infected people to enter and to spread Corona virus. His incompetence has cost us over 130,000 dead Americans. You cannot possibly blame Democrats for that.


Yeah there was trouble in Seattle because of its liberal mayor. But what of the far right terrorists who pointed rifles at police and feds in Las Vegas during the tax protest? Two cops were killed. Remember the outrage back then? Or how about Timothy McVeigh and his wickedness causing the deaths of all those innocents? It remains a fact that far right errorists have burned down churches, mosques, synagogues, and killed many innocents. This worse than anything the far left has done.

Democrats may not be pristine or perfect in their politics. But the record clearly shows more economic growth, greater prosperity, and more order under Dem presidents than Republicans. That remains fact whether anyone chooses to believe it or not.

I can't tell the difference between you acknowledging the weaknesses of the Democrats as opposed to trying to justify them by bringing up the wrongs of the Republicans each time. A few of your main statements take the form, the Democrats are bad at x BUT the Repubs also x. You didn't do this when you were criticizing the Republican party.

Either way, you keep bringing up "history" but that does not always follow into the present given that Trump is not a conventional Republican. Trump's policies are consistently about deterring while the Democrats policies would attract even more illegals. I would think that building a border wall, stopping the large immigrant caravans even with military presence is a stronger deterrent than the Democrat plans that nvolve sanctuary cities, defunding ICE, providing illegals free healthcare, and decriminalizing border crossings. I mean you tell me, assuming illegals had a choice who do you think theyd rather vote for? Dems or republicans??

[koko]

I can't tell the difference between you acknowledging the weaknesses of the Democrats as opposed to trying to justify them by bringing up the wrongs of the Republicans each time. A few of your main statements take the form, the Democrats are bad at x BUT the Repubs also x. You didn't do this when you were criticizing the Republican party.

Either way, you keep bringing up "history" but that does not always follow into the present given that Trump is not a conventional Republican. Trump's policies are consistently about deterring while the Democrats policies would attract even more illegals. I would think that building a border wall, stopping the large immigrant caravans even with military presence is a stronger deterrent than the Democrat plans that nvolve sanctuary cities, defunding ICE, providing illegals free healthcare, and decriminalizing border crossings. I mean you tell me, assuming illegals had a choice who do you think theyd rather vote for? Dems or republicans??

Health care for illegals? Not so in almost all of the USA:

https://www.google.com/search?q=illegal ... e&ie=UTF-8


Border wall? Not needed if the Republican controlled Justice Dept would prosecute those who hire illegals. It would cost FAR less and bring in far more revenue to the government. While we're at it, let's get rid of all those Mafiosis who spread drugs and other crimes in society. Trump can easily de-fund any city that offers sanctuary to illegals. But then, how about the issue of states and cities rights? This used to be a big deal to conservatives years ago. Now they forgot the principles they applauded for all those years. Ironic, isn't it?

Stopping caravans of illegals? Good idea. First start by refusing to support fascist governments in Central & South America. This way those people cannot claim to be fleeing for political reasons. Let's promote democracy there instead of supporting General Rios-Montt, Somoza, Stroessner, and those death squads.

Trump not a conventional Republican? He is running unopposed, so what does that tell you?