I'm a (insert religious identity here) and I vote... What's your point?

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bluegreenearth
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I'm a (insert religious identity here) and I vote... What's your point?

Post #1

Post by bluegreenearth »

We've all seen the bumper stickers: "I'm a Christian and I vote" or "I'm a Catholic and I vote" or other similar statements associating a religious identity with a political perspective. Do any of the theists who brandish these political statements ever take time to consider what is ultimately implied in those messages? When the political implication of such a message is acknowledged, it can be rewritten as follows: "I'm a theocrat and I vote." Before accusing that rephrased statement of being hyperbolic, recognize where a theocracy can be the only possible outcome when theocratic policies and politicians are granted that authority by the dominant religious majority who vote for them.

If the intention of this politically threatening message is to warn fellow citizens of someone's desire to have a particular religious doctrine imposed on everyone else by voting for policies and politicians that favor their theocratic ambitions, then these theists have seriously failed to comprehend how their religious freedom is contingent upon keeping church and state separate. What will it take to convince theists that they should be endorsing policies and political leaders that are more inclined to honor and respect the separation of church and state rather than pander to the theocratic ambitions of a dominant religious majority?

Obviously, from the theistic perspective, the difficulty resides with the fact that voting against a policy or candidate that seems to serve in their best interest is counter-intuitive. Nevertheless, anyone who values religious freedom needs to understand that it is sometimes necessary to vote against what you might perceive to be your own best interest for the sake of a maintaining a secular government. This is because religious freedom is only possible when the government and its representatives are prohibited from either endorsing or prohibiting a particular religious belief over any other religious belief or no religious belief.

Surprisingly, while a theocratic threat has always existed in America since its founding, it has never before received a sufficient amount of support from either political party to take root. This is because, until relatively recently, most politicians knew that for the government to legislate based on a theological perspective would be to open the door for future theocratic legislation which they couldn't guarantee would always be in line with their particular religious values. So, modern day politicians and their religious constituents who have theocratic ambitions would do well to consult the rationale of their predecessors who voted for bills and policies that didn't perverse the concept of religious freedom. What would it mean for religious freedom to have those secular laws and policies repealed or replaced by theocratic-leaning laws and policies that effectively function as an official government endorsement of a dominant religious tradition (i.e. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Blitz)? As the saying goes, "Be careful what you ask for." :no:

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Re: I'm a (insert religious identity here) and I vote... What's your point?

Post #21

Post by Tcg »

Purple Knight wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:36 pm
Tcg wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:59 pmIf a king doesn't exist he can do nothing and therefore can't be either good or bad.
If Donald Trump was a complete fabrication, but his handlers had managed to fool everyone with holograms, exactly how would that affect the last four years?
Donald Trump isn't a fabrication. He exists and thus we can judge his actions as good or bad.

What would the last four years have been like if he were a fabrication? I have no idea given the fact that he isn't.


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Re: I'm a (insert religious identity here) and I vote... What's your point?

Post #22

Post by Purple Knight »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:54 pmI don't follow your analogy of fighting an EVIL sword with a butterknife.
Politics is the sword. It's the powerful weapon that will win unless another sword is taken up against it. You don't believe in using that sword. You use other weapons.
JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:54 pmThose that really lead the world are extremely powerful and evil there is not point in waving a butterknife at them, they must be destroyed/killed/executed/wiped out. What's that line in the Kevin Costner movie "You can't reason with evil, son. Evil wants what it wants, and it won't stop until it's won or you kill it. ..".

There is no saving this system from within, there is no reform that will work....it has to to go. And I know just who has the power to do it.
A rebellion. A reset. If what you believe in has the power to cause that then fine.

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Re: I'm a (insert religious identity here) and I vote... What's your point?

Post #23

Post by Purple Knight »

Tcg wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:20 pmWhat would the last four years have been like if he were a fabrication? I have no idea given the fact that he isn't.
If everyone was fooled I don't see how anything would change.

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Re: I'm a (insert religious identity here) and I vote... What's your point?

Post #24

Post by Tcg »

Purple Knight wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:57 pm
Tcg wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:20 pmWhat would the last four years have been like if he were a fabrication? I have no idea given the fact that he isn't.
If everyone was fooled I don't see how anything would change.
We've drifted rather far from the issue. The subject we started with is the imaginary king being pushed here. Quite obviously not everyone is fooled by that king. I'm not the only one to notice that the clothes have no king.


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Re: I'm a (insert religious identity here) and I vote... What's your point?

Post #25

Post by Purple Knight »

Tcg wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:17 pmWe've drifted rather far from the issue. The subject we started with is the imaginary king being pushed here. Quite obviously not everyone is fooled by that king. I'm not the only one to notice that the clothes have no king.
No, you're not, but if the 5% of us that do notice just went along with it instead, and that brought about a better world (which, okay, is a huge theoretical), but assuming that it would do so... I'm really not sure whether the right thing might not be to just go along with it.

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Re: I'm a (insert religious identity here) and I vote... What's your point?

Post #26

Post by Tcg »

Purple Knight wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:53 pm
Tcg wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:17 pmWe've drifted rather far from the issue. The subject we started with is the imaginary king being pushed here. Quite obviously not everyone is fooled by that king. I'm not the only one to notice that the clothes have no king.
No, you're not, but if the 5% of us that do notice just went along with it instead, and that brought about a better world (which, okay, is a huge theoretical), but assuming that it would do so... I'm really not sure whether the right thing might not be to just go along with it.
In this case I am discussing the real attitude some take concerning politics. Rather than attempt to improve a system that at least has the potential to bring about positive change, they simply wait for an imaginary king to come and set things right. It may be a comforting myth, but I can't see how this approach will result in anything positive for the human race.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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