Someone Tells You They're Trans

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Do You Accept Them?

Poll ended at Tue Mar 22, 2022 4:59 pm

Yes
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No
1
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Total votes: 4

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Purple Knight
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Someone Tells You They're Trans

Post #1

Post by Purple Knight »

"I am a trans woman." someone tells you. "I identify as a trans woman. I want to be accepted and treated the same as any other trans woman."

However, this person in question is not trans. They were born female and identify as female. However, they also identify as a trans woman. They didn't go through any transition or surgery, but, they say, they're willing to transition, and then transition back if it helps. They say they want acceptance as the trans person they are. They say they feel left out, ostracised, and abused because people have said to their face, no, you are not trans, you are cis. Words have meanings. What you are is called cis. What that other person is who started life as male and transitioned to female, is called trans. What you identify as in your sick head does not change reality. You clearly just want special rights and privileges. Go home.

But, they say, I do not identify as cis. Cis is a hurtful word to me. If I just wanted special rights and privileges I could just say I was trans and cut off my breasts and take testosterone, which I am willing to do. I could say I was non-binary and get the same thing. But neither of these things are the truth. The truth is that I was born female and I identify as a woman, but as a trans woman, not a cis woman. This is how I really feel. I feel like I already transitioned to get here.

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Re: Someone Tells You They're Trans

Post #2

Post by tam »

Peace to you,

Well, that's a little different, but okay... you do you.

I treat a trans-woman like a woman, so a woman who wants to be treated like a trans-woman is just going to be treated like a woman anyway (at least by me). What special rights are trans-people getting to begin with? Just the same rights as the gender they are identifying with, right?


If other trans-people object, mind you, that would be between them.


Peace again to you!

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Re: Someone Tells You They're Trans

Post #3

Post by Purple Knight »

tam wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:24 pmI treat a trans-woman like a woman, so a woman who wants to be treated like a trans-woman is just going to be treated like a woman anyway (at least by me).
That's fine with them.
tam wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:24 pmWhat special rights are trans-people getting to begin with? Just the same rights as the gender they are identifying with, right?
That person just wants to be acknowledged as trans - a trans woman, not a cis woman. She says cis is a hurtful word and it's not what she feels like she is. She has had encounters with people (trans or otherwise) who have called that ridiculous. Those people have implied that she wants (for example) the special protection afforded to trans people in the workplace. She admits she does if that's what trans people have (regardless of being perhaps mistaken that they have any special protection, she thinks this because she has been accused of trying to get it) because she considers herself trans. She has no desire to sue anybody, or make life difficult for them in any way, but if that protection is something trans people have she wants it, simply because she wants to be accepted as trans, because she identifies as trans. She won't use it, but she wants it nonetheless.

She has already been made fun of in her workplace for calling herself trans when she isn't. Her boss even threatened to fire her if she didn't stop.

To make matters worse, she started saying she was trans about a month after a male coworker transitioned to female. This brand new woman never gets teased about being ugly, and the boss even held a meeting to make sure no one did, but the one born female now calling herself a trans woman gets teased every day. No boobs. Buttface. Hey, why don't you wear a little more makeup? Oh never mind, you are and it's not working.

Everyone in her workplace seems to think she's now calling herself trans to get the teasing to stop. She insists it has nothing to do with that.

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Re: Someone Tells You They're Trans

Post #4

Post by AgnosticBoy »

Purple Knight wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:59 pm "I am a trans woman." someone tells you. "I identify as a trans woman. I want to be accepted and treated the same as any other trans woman."
Based on the understanding I've come to have (and it's still evolving), I have no problems treating and addressing a trans woman as a woman. But I can think of some cases where this could be difficult to apply. For instance, I would be hesitant letting a trans woman compete in women's sports and I personally would not get into any romantic relationship with one. It would also not be good if to treat a trans woman as a woman if certain medical procedures/treatments are dependent on gender. There are obviously practical reasons for those situations, but other than that, I don't mind treating people as the gender they identify with.

What I really want to know is the Christian perspective on this. On a Catholic website I used to frequent (it's since closed), there were plenty of discussions about how to address transgender people. One potential solution was to follow the laws and address someone as the law says they should be addressed or recognized. The thinking for the Catholic would then be that following the law doesn't have to mean you agree with it. Or perhaps they could think of it as acknowledging the person's gender in a civil context (like civil marriages), doesn't mean that you are acknowledging them in a religious context.

Anyways, you could probably figure out their thinking at this point.
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Re: Someone Tells You They're Trans

Post #5

Post by Purple Knight »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:20 amBased on the understanding I've come to have (and it's still evolving), I have no problems treating and addressing a trans woman as a woman.
In this particular case, she is a cis woman. She was born female and identifies as female.

She wants to be acknowledged as a trans woman. She wants to be treated as trans and treated the same as someone who started out male and transitioned to female, even though she didn't.

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Re: Someone Tells You They're Trans

Post #6

Post by AgnosticBoy »

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #5]
My apologies. Didn't read carefully enough.

I was looking for a particular label that would fit what you were describing in hopes that it would offer more details but I couldn't find any. For now I'd have to say that I wouldn't accept what the person is saying because it doesn't make any logical sense. They're saying that they would be willing to transition, but I would question transition to what since they are already female? A trans woman would involve transitioning from male to female.

In answering your question of if I would accept this, I think it's best to distinguish why I would accept a transgender scenario and not your scenario. One obvious reason is that your scenario is not an actual transgender scenario. I'm willing to accept a transgender as the gender they identify with because there are factors beyond their control that caused their condition. I question if there are factors beyond the person's control in your scenario. If it's just ignorance, then why should I accommodate that?
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Re: Someone Tells You They're Trans

Post #7

Post by nobspeople »

Purple Knight wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:59 pm "I am a trans woman." someone tells you. "I identify as a trans woman. I want to be accepted and treated the same as any other trans woman."

However, this person in question is not trans. They were born female and identify as female. However, they also identify as a trans woman. They didn't go through any transition or surgery, but, they say, they're willing to transition, and then transition back if it helps. They say they want acceptance as the trans person they are. They say they feel left out, ostracised, and abused because people have said to their face, no, you are not trans, you are cis. Words have meanings. What you are is called cis. What that other person is who started life as male and transitioned to female, is called trans. What you identify as in your sick head does not change reality. You clearly just want special rights and privileges. Go home.

But, they say, I do not identify as cis. Cis is a hurtful word to me. If I just wanted special rights and privileges I could just say I was trans and cut off my breasts and take testosterone, which I am willing to do. I could say I was non-binary and get the same thing. But neither of these things are the truth. The truth is that I was born female and I identify as a woman, but as a trans woman, not a cis woman. This is how I really feel. I feel like I already transitioned to get here.
If it doesn't do harm to me, why would I not accept them? That doesn't mean I have to like them, or associate with them, if they're a terrible person, however. Unfortunately, in today's world, so many times people equate acceptance with 'liking' them, which isn't reality. But many don't like to live in reality these days.

If everyone is treating everyone else with the same amount of respect (I know I know this is the real world) we wouldn't have nearly as much problems across all groups as we have now IMO.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Someone Tells You They're Trans

Post #8

Post by Purple Knight »

nobspeople wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:37 pmIf it doesn't do harm to me, why would I not accept them?
Real trans people might say it does harm to them for this fake trans person to be accepted as trans when the hard truth is they're simply not. I wouldn't disagree with that.
nobspeople wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:37 pmIf everyone is treating everyone else with the same amount of respect (I know I know this is the real world) we wouldn't have nearly as much problems across all groups as we have now IMO.
Sometimes you must choose. If the real trans people get upset at this person being considered trans when the sad truth is, they aren't, you're going to have to choose who to respect and who to disrespect. What do you do if you begin accepting this person and someone who is actually trans is offended by it? They say it diminishes them. They say it diminishes their actual struggles, of which this person has none.
AgnosticBoy wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:03 pmThey're saying that they would be willing to transition, but I would question transition to what since they are already female? A trans woman would involve transitioning from male to female.
If it gains the acceptance they want, they are willing to transition to male, then back to female. Anything to be thought of as a trans woman, because that's what they identify as.
AgnosticBoy wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:03 pmIn answering your question of if I would accept this, I think it's best to distinguish why I would accept a transgender scenario and not your scenario. One obvious reason is that your scenario is not an actual transgender scenario. I'm willing to accept a transgender as the gender they identify with because there are factors beyond their control that caused their condition. I question if there are factors beyond the person's control in your scenario. If it's just ignorance, then why should I accommodate that?
Arguably you shouldn't. They want to be accepted as something they simply aren't, and wishing they were doesn't change that. Wishing you are trans does not make you trans. Trans is a word with a meaning. To be a trans woman you have to have started as male and transitioned to female. This person is cis whether they like it or not. If that's hurtful, too bad, really. Or is this wrong?

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Re: Someone Tells You They're Trans

Post #9

Post by AgnosticBoy »

Purple Knight wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:04 pm
AgnosticBoy wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:03 pmIn answering your question of if I would accept this, I think it's best to distinguish why I would accept a transgender scenario and not your scenario. One obvious reason is that your scenario is not an actual transgender scenario. I'm willing to accept a transgender as the gender they identify with because there are factors beyond their control that caused their condition. I question if there are factors beyond the person's control in your scenario. If it's just ignorance, then why should I accommodate that?
Arguably you shouldn't. They want to be accepted as something they simply aren't, and wishing they were doesn't change that. Wishing you are trans does not make you trans. Trans is a word with a meaning. To be a trans woman you have to have started as male and transitioned to female. This person is cis whether they like it or not. If that's hurtful, too bad, really. Or is this wrong?
I don't see it as being wrong in any way. It's funny but I think the only reason it would feel wrong is because it involves a sensitive issue, i.e. gender identity, transgender, etc. However, if we accommodate this person, then I see no reason why we shouldn't accommodate someone who feels bad about being called a human. As I've said in the previous post, real transgenderism is at least a biologically rooted problem and there are some established healthy ways for dealing with it according to the experts (including sex change) , but I see the other case (your scenario in post 1) as more of a mental problem or even just a misunderstanding, and one where just going along with whatever the person tells you may very well being unhealthy and illogical.
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Re: Someone Tells You They're Trans

Post #10

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #8]
Real trans people might say it does harm to them for this fake trans person to be accepted as trans when the hard truth is they're simply not. I wouldn't disagree with that.
Sometimes you're scr*wed no matter what you say or do. I could excrete gold, solve world hunger and create world peace but SOMEONE will be unhappy about it somewhere. So I don't accept a 'fake' trans person and they're upset. I accept them and the 'real trans person' is upset. You can't please everyone.
Sometimes you must choose.
Choose whom to respect you mean? If so, that's very true many, but not all, times. In this situation, so long as the 'fake' and 'real' trans persons are respectful to me, I will be respectful in return. The choice comes, not do to their gender identity, gender, height, weight, race, religion, etc, but how they treat me. The whole 'trans issue' is theirs, not mine.
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