NATO Expands further

Two hot topics for the price of one

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
Sherlock Holmes

NATO Expands further

Post #1

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

Well Finland and now Sweden have announced their desire and intention to apply for NATO membership.

That such a decisions is not made via a national referendum is a subversion of democracy, the consequences are potentially huge and every adult in the country should have had a voice in this.

The Western media constantly babble about Putin and Russia "want to reestablish the old Russian empire" while right under our noses the military force (dominated by the non-European USA) NATO continues its perverse growth.

There is nothing to stop any country from developing a treaty with other nations that guarantee military support if attacked, much as Poland had with Britain at the start of WW2.

It is simply not necessary to join NATO, there are other far less contentious options, all of this bodes ill IMHO.

So, should NATO continue to expand and continue to accept members from states bordering Russia?
Last edited by Sherlock Holmes on Mon May 16, 2022 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Jose Fly
Guru
Posts: 1462
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:30 pm
Location: Out west somewhere
Has thanked: 337 times
Been thanked: 906 times

Re: NATO Expands further

Post #2

Post by Jose Fly »

Being apathetic is great....or not. I don't really care.


User avatar
Jose Fly
Guru
Posts: 1462
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:30 pm
Location: Out west somewhere
Has thanked: 337 times
Been thanked: 906 times

Re: NATO Expands further

Post #4

Post by Jose Fly »

Then I don't understand your point in the OP. Polling shows broad public support for joining NATO, and being representative democracies the elected representatives are reflecting that by taking steps to join NATO.

Given Russia's invasion of Ukraine and their repeated threats to Finland and Sweden, it makes sense.
Being apathetic is great....or not. I don't really care.

Sherlock Holmes

Re: NATO Expands further

Post #5

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

Jose Fly wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 1:55 pm
Then I don't understand your point in the OP. Polling shows broad public support for joining NATO, and being representative democracies the elected representatives are reflecting that by taking steps to join NATO.

Given Russia's invasion of Ukraine and their repeated threats to Finland and Sweden, it makes sense.
Just as we don't decide who is to be president by using a poll, I don't think a country should decide whether to seek membership of a nuclear armed military alliance with a track record of criminality, by using a "poll".

Imagine if Trump had said "President Donald Trump says an election for President is no longer necessary" using the same argument that Sauli Niinistö has used.
Sufficient evidence now shows that most Americans want to see Trump remain as president, Vice-President Mike Pence told broadcaster FOX News on Wednesday after he had called for a broad survey for the idea just one week ago.

User avatar
Jose Fly
Guru
Posts: 1462
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:30 pm
Location: Out west somewhere
Has thanked: 337 times
Been thanked: 906 times

Re: NATO Expands further

Post #6

Post by Jose Fly »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 2:08 pm
Jose Fly wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 1:55 pm
Then I don't understand your point in the OP. Polling shows broad public support for joining NATO, and being representative democracies the elected representatives are reflecting that by taking steps to join NATO.

Given Russia's invasion of Ukraine and their repeated threats to Finland and Sweden, it makes sense.
Just as we don't decide who is to be president by using a poll, I don't think a country should decide whether to seek membership of a nuclear armed military alliance with a track record of criminality, by using a "poll".

Imagine if Trump had said "President Donald Trump says an election for President is no longer necessary" using the same argument that Sauli Niinistö has used.
Sufficient evidence now shows that most Americans want to see Trump remain as president, Vice-President Mike Pence told broadcaster FOX News on Wednesday after he had called for a broad survey for the idea just one week ago.
You'd have a point if Sweden and Finland were basing their decision purely on polling. Instead, as I noted earlier, they are following standard representative democracy.....the public elects representatives who make these decisions on their behalf.

It's not all that complicated, so I'm not sure why you're struggling with it.
Being apathetic is great....or not. I don't really care.

User avatar
Miles
Savant
Posts: 5179
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 434 times
Been thanked: 1614 times

Re: NATO Expands further

Post #7

Post by Miles »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 2:08 pm
Jose Fly wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 1:55 pm
Then I don't understand your point in the OP. Polling shows broad public support for joining NATO, and being representative democracies the elected representatives are reflecting that by taking steps to join NATO.

Given Russia's invasion of Ukraine and their repeated threats to Finland and Sweden, it makes sense.
Just as we don't decide who is to be president by using a poll, I don't think a country should decide whether to seek membership of a nuclear armed military alliance with a track record of criminality, by using a poll.
And it doesn't!

Much like the USA the politics of Finland take place within the framework of a parliamentary representative democracy. Representatives who have been elected into office by the populace.

"Finland is governed by its status as a republic with representative democracy. The public administration is composed of the highest elected bodies, state administration, local government, and the judiciary. The highest elected body is made up of the parliament, the president, and the government. The Parliament of Finland exercises the legislative powers while the executive power is exercised by the cabinet supervised by the premier who heads the government of Finland. The president heads the state and has powers to make a decision concerning some matters such as personal appointments and pardons."
source


"Representative" and "elected." Sound familiar?

.

Sherlock Holmes

Re: NATO Expands further

Post #8

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

Ahh, some good news! it seems Turkey might just scupper NATO's plans for world domination:

Image
Last edited by Sherlock Holmes on Mon May 16, 2022 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Miles
Savant
Posts: 5179
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 434 times
Been thanked: 1614 times

Re: NATO Expands further

Post #9

Post by Miles »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 2:35 pm It seems Turkey might scupper NATO's plans for world domination:

Image
My guess, and it's only that, is that other member nations will pressure Turkey into accepting both countries.


.

Sherlock Holmes

Re: NATO Expands further

Post #10

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

[Replying to Miles in post #9]

Yes, that's likely true, after all this is all geopolitics nothing more.

Post Reply