Invasion of the Body Snatchers
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- Diogenes
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Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Post #1A favorite book and movie, the 1956 version has been remade several times.
Re-watching the 1978 version I was struck by how it could be a metaphor for the evangelical conversion experience, particularly the one featured at thousands of church sponsored summer camps. A more apt title might be Invasion of the Soul Snatchers.
Trump and MAGA were supported by evangelicals at over 80%, the highest of any of his demographics, along with those less educated. Both the movie national conservative and evangelical politics urge the individual to conform.
For Debate:
Does the Christian conversion experience explicitly plead with the individual to surrender their own ego, their very essence of who they are, to subvert their very nature and join the collective as they bow to a 'higher order?' Is this a good thing for either society or the individual?
Are MAGA supporters Pod People?
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“Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves”
— Confucius
“Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves”
— Confucius
Re: Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Post #2[Replying to Diogenes in post #1]
Its a complex question, "The Lord works in mysterious ways" and all that.
I disapprove of evangelical "churches" there is a lot of brain washing going and taking advantage of people, often people who appear vulnerable.
For me it is a personal private matter, I do not attend "churches" I do not embrace groups, they are - IMHO - too much like social clubs. Some people get fulfillment from that but not me.
I do not think it is necessary to "join" these "churches" and participate in the various activities they spend time on.
The whole formula, Sunday church meetings, paying tithes, etc is all to much like the rules and regulations Christ reprimanded the Pharisees about, pretty much every "organized" Christian church burdens people with stuff, all we actually need is God's Word nothing more.
Its a complex question, "The Lord works in mysterious ways" and all that.
I disapprove of evangelical "churches" there is a lot of brain washing going and taking advantage of people, often people who appear vulnerable.
For me it is a personal private matter, I do not attend "churches" I do not embrace groups, they are - IMHO - too much like social clubs. Some people get fulfillment from that but not me.
I do not think it is necessary to "join" these "churches" and participate in the various activities they spend time on.
The whole formula, Sunday church meetings, paying tithes, etc is all to much like the rules and regulations Christ reprimanded the Pharisees about, pretty much every "organized" Christian church burdens people with stuff, all we actually need is God's Word nothing more.
- Diogenes
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Re: Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Post #3For once, I agree with you, particularly with the "social club" reference. Except... social clubs like Kiwanis may actually spend more time and money on public causes or helping the poor. Churches devote almost none of their budget to benevolence.Sherlock Holmes wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 3:02 pm [Replying to Diogenes in post #1]
Its a complex question, "The Lord works in mysterious ways" and all that.
I disapprove of evangelical "churches" there is a lot of brain washing going and taking advantage of people, often people who appear vulnerable.
For me it is a personal private matter, I do not attend "churches" I do not embrace groups, they are - IMHO - too much like social clubs.
https://www.mlive.com/living/grand-rapi ... ng_at.htmlChurch giving spent on “benevolence” including global missions and social services slipped to 0.35 percent of income....
___________________________________
“Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves”
— Confucius
“Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves”
— Confucius
Re: Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Post #4Yes, there's a lot of truth in that. It's interesting to do just a cursory bit of research on the web as to the legitimacy of tithing, there's really no Biblical case for this practice, yet gullible people in their millions hand over wads of cash all the time to finance empire building.Diogenes wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 4:09 pmFor once, I agree with you, particularly with the "social club" reference. Except... social clubs like Kiwanis may actually spend more time and money on public causes or helping the poor. Churches devote almost none of their budget to benevolence.Sherlock Holmes wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 3:02 pm [Replying to Diogenes in post #1]
Its a complex question, "The Lord works in mysterious ways" and all that.
I disapprove of evangelical "churches" there is a lot of brain washing going and taking advantage of people, often people who appear vulnerable.
For me it is a personal private matter, I do not attend "churches" I do not embrace groups, they are - IMHO - too much like social clubs.https://www.mlive.com/living/grand-rapi ... ng_at.htmlChurch giving spent on “benevolence” including global missions and social services slipped to 0.35 percent of income....
There seems to be a prevalent view around too that thinks to be a Christian one must "join" a "church" and adopt various duties and responsibilities, as if works is the path to salvation.
Of course if some want do that then of course that's fine with me, I simply don't believe that this pattern is important when it comes to understanding God's will and our purpose.
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Re: Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Post #5I remember hearing numbers like this back in 2008, and at the time I found it surprising since it did not fit with my own experiences.Diogenes wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 4:09 pm For once, I agree with you, particularly with the "social club" reference. Except... social clubs like Kiwanis may actually spend more time and money on public causes or helping the poor. Churches devote almost none of their budget to benevolence.https://www.mlive.com/living/grand-rapi ... ng_at.htmlChurch giving spent on “benevolence” including global missions and social services slipped to 0.35 percent of income....
This 2017 study from the Lake Institute fits more with my own anecdotal experience. It found that missions take an average of 11% of church budgets and benevolence (including programs like addition recovery and food pantries) take an average of 10% of church budgets. Staff, who run those benevolence programs, takes a little under half the budget.
https://www.nscep.org/finding/
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Re: Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Post #6Well, Christianity does have all that stuff about “deny yourself, take your cross and follow me.”Diogenes wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 2:03 pm For Debate:
Does the Christian conversion experience explicitly plead with the individual to surrender their own ego, their very essence of who they are, to subvert their very nature and join the collective as they bow to a 'higher order?' Is this a good thing for either society or the individual?
Are MAGA supporters Pod People?
However, at the time most commentators saw political instead of religious allegories. Since the book and subsequent movie both came out during the Red Scare, Invasion was usual cast as a warning against a Communist infestation, or against turning a blind eye to McCarthyism.
The author of the book, the director and the lead actors of the 1956 film all said that they thought they were making a straightforward thriller with no religious or political allegories. They have at various times been critical of such interpretations.
I tend to agree with such criticism. Saying “Are they pod people?” seems like little more than a way to insult anyone who disagrees with you.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
-Charles Darwin
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Re: Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Post #7.
With people abandoning religion in droves it's no wonder churches don't have enough money to feed the church mice, much less help anyone else.
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....................................1952....................................................................2012
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With people abandoning religion in droves it's no wonder churches don't have enough money to feed the church mice, much less help anyone else.
...............................
....................................1952....................................................................2012
..............,,,...............source
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Re: Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Post #8Christianity and evangelism in the US differs markedly from most other countries in my experience. The nationalism associated with it is far less prominent in Europe for example, US Christianity is quite distorted I think. This might be due to the history, the US is young, Puritans represented most early Christians here (and Quakers to a lesser extent but of course Quakers aren't quacks).Diogenes wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 2:03 pm
A favorite book and movie, the 1956 version has been remade several times.
Re-watching the 1978 version I was struck by how it could be a metaphor for the evangelical conversion experience, particularly the one featured at thousands of church sponsored summer camps. A more apt title might be Invasion of the Soul Snatchers.
Trump and MAGA were supported by evangelicals at over 80%, the highest of any of his demographics, along with those less educated. Both the movie national conservative and evangelical politics urge the individual to conform.
For Debate:
Does the Christian conversion experience explicitly plead with the individual to surrender their own ego, their very essence of who they are, to subvert their very nature and join the collective as they bow to a 'higher order?' Is this a good thing for either society or the individual?
Are MAGA supporters Pod People?
So this question is more about US society and culture than it is about Christianity I think.
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Re: Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Post #9Interesting, thanks. Given the original religious impetus in our founding, I suppose it's hard to tell how much is from U.S. general culture, and how much from the church. My concern is centered more on the pressure evangelicalism puts on the individual, particularly children, to not only conform but to literally give up their souls. Children are taught they must surrender their will, their own nature, to 'Christ.'Inquirer wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:52 am Christianity and evangelism in the US differs markedly from most other countries in my experience. The nationalism associated with it is far less prominent in Europe for example, US Christianity is quite distorted I think. This might be due to the history, the US is young, Puritans represented most early Christians here (and Quakers to a lesser extent but of course Quakers aren't quacks).
So this question is more about US society and culture than it is about Christianity I think.
I make the MAGA reference because they too, seem to have lost their individuality, praising all things Trump, even tho' he represents the opposite of the Christian ideal. Once baptized in the worship of a corrupt politician or all demanding 'cause' they forgo reason and their own inner selves and become like Pod People.
___________________________________
“Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves”
— Confucius
“Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves”
— Confucius
- Miles
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Re: Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Post #10Christianity in the USA may be markedly different than Christianity elsewhere, but with 200 some denominations in the country compared to the 45,000 globally this shouldn't be surprising.Inquirer wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:52 am
Christianity and evangelism in the US differs markedly from most other countries in my experience. The nationalism associated with it is far less prominent in Europe for example, US Christianity is quite distorted I think. This might be due to the history, the US is young, Puritans represented most early Christians here (and Quakers to a lesser extent but of course Quakers aren't quacks).
So this question is more about US society and culture than it is about Christianity I think.
"Estimations show there are more than 200 Christian denominations in the U.S. and a staggering 45,000 globally, according to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity"
source
source
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