An American Problem

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Sherlock Holmes

An American Problem

Post #1

Post by Sherlock Holmes »


So do you agree? is this an American problem?

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Re: An American Problem

Post #11

Post by Athetotheist »

Another highly important factor has to be taken into consideration. Here are a couple of hints: it's the predominant religion here in the US and its name begins with a C.

That's right......

Capitalism.

The gun industry has a powerful lobby which showers politicians with money, and money is the holy oil of the capitalist religion. Guns are a cash cow, so the gospel of capitalism proclaims that everybody needs one. No.....ten. No.....FIFTY. And any call to put restrictions on them is conveniently hyperbolized into a plot to "seize all the guns!"

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Re: An American Problem

Post #12

Post by Athetotheist »

Also, that line about not "politicizing" the issue doesn't fly either. The only political thing about it is how many politicians accept money from the gun lobby.

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Re: An American Problem

Post #13

Post by AgnosticBoy »

Athetotheist wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 3:17 pm Also, that line about not "politicizing" the issue doesn't fly either. The only political thing about it is how many politicians accept money from the gun lobby.
Politics becomes bad when politicians put their ideology, money, and power, before truth and/or the common good of the people.

Both sides have engaged in politics in this sense. Plenty of Republicans are motivated by the money and views of the NRA and push their agenda accordingly. Plenty of Democrats and their pundits (esp. in the mainstream media) are for gun bans (banning all semi-automatic weapons which includes hand guns) or putting very tight restrictions that would make getting one so hard that it virtually no one could get one or use it - a gun ban, in effect.

Interestingly, the Republicans try to ban abortion the same way, not by coming out directly against it, but by having a lot of restrictions or very strict restrictions.

The biggest problem I see is that you have two sides offering extreme positions, and none of them are willing to compromise. And we wonder why nothing ever gets done. Sure money, keeps them from compromising but so does unproven/personal ideologies (ones they're not willing to give up no matter the evidence against it), power (an election year, especially), etc.
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Re: An American Problem

Post #14

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #13
The biggest problem I see is that you have two sides offering extreme positions, and none of them are willing to compromise. And we wonder why nothing ever gets done.
This comes back to a certain hypothesis of mine which I've brought up elsewhere: that the movers and shakers on the two sides are actually on the same side and playing all of us in the middle. For a hierarchical society to maintain itself, the masses can't just be kept in deprivation; they also have to be kept divided against each other so they won't direct their anger at those doing the depriving [see Orwell]. Woke--MAGA, Republican--Democrat, Men--Women, urban--rural, Black--White, straight--gay......as we allow ourselves to be divided into smaller and more militantly paranoid enclaves, our collective power is reduced further and further. As for nothing getting done, I suspect that's the idea.

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Re: An American Problem

Post #15

Post by AgnosticBoy »

Athetotheist wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 12:13 pm
AgnosticBoy wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 7:49 pm The biggest problem I see is that you have two sides offering extreme positions, and none of them are willing to compromise. And we wonder why nothing ever gets done.
This comes back to a certain hypothesis of mine which I've brought up elsewhere: that the movers and shakers on the two sides are actually on the same side and playing all of us in the middle. For a hierarchical society to maintain itself, the masses can't just be kept in deprivation; they also have to be kept divided against each other so they won't direct their anger at those doing the depriving [see Orwell]. Woke--MAGA, Republican--Democrat, Men--Women, urban--rural, Black--White, straight--gay......as we allow ourselves to be divided into smaller and more militantly paranoid enclaves, our collective power is reduced further and further. As for nothing getting done, I suspect that's the idea.
Well said! Nowadays, it's not enough for politicians to just divide, but they also have to polarize us. If the American public were united or even formed a majority on an issue, then that would translate into voting power. If you want to see a politician listen to the people, then all a united America would have to do is just threaten to vote him out or actually show him that you have the votes to do it, and they'll shape up real quick. But of course, the divide and conquer strategy is working for them.

Here's another explanation to the problem:
By now, Americans are used to hearing how “polarized” our country is—how Democrats and Republicans live in separate worlds, or “echo chambers,” with each side prone to bias or “motivated reasoning.” Pundits and scholars have made the case ad nauseum for years.

But the truth might be that it’s even worse than we think, and that polarization doesn’t quite capture the partisan rancor we see on our screens.

“In a real sense, polarization is not the problem,” Finkel says. “Clear, well-articulated differences across political parties are a good thing. The problem is that Americans have grown hateful toward opposing partisans based more on a religion-like social identity than on actual disagreements about policies.”

The point is not that the beliefs of Democrats or Republicans derive from religion, but rather that political identity in America today functions as if it is a religious identity. “People on the other side are not just wrong; they’re evil. People on our side who are not sufficiently pure are apostates,” says Finkel.
Source: https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.ed ... larism/amp
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Re: An American Problem

Post #16

Post by The Barbarian »

When it's easier for a kid to get a semiautomatic rifle than it is to get a driver's license, things happen.

Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: An American Problem

Post #17

Post by Diogenes »

Since we averaged more than two mass shootings per day in May of this year, I find myself reflecting again on the USA's 2d Amendment. I look to Ukraine as an example of arms needed to supply a "well regulated militia." The West is not sending AR-15 style weapons. They are sending Stinger missiles and other sophisticated military hardware. If the 2d Amendment actually meant what too many of its proponents thought, they'd be allowed to buy nuclear weapons and advanced missile systems.
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Re: An American Problem

Post #18

Post by Diogenes »

One would think that if there were a single issue evangelical Christians would agree upon, it would be opposition to firearm ownership. After all, Jesus not only preached non violence, but 'turning the other cheek' when confronted with violence. Yet, "Two out of five self-identified white evangelicals own a gun, higher than any other religious group, according to a recent study from the Pew Research Center. Four out of five have fired one."
https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/ ... s-pew.html
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Re: An American Problem

Post #19

Post by Athetotheist »

Diogenes wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:09 pm One would think that if there were a single issue evangelical Christians would agree upon, it would be opposition to firearm ownership. After all, Jesus not only preached non violence, but 'turning the other cheek' when confronted with violence. Yet, "Two out of five self-identified white evangelicals own a gun, higher than any other religious group, according to a recent study from the Pew Research Center. Four out of five have fired one."
https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/ ... s-pew.html
And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
(Luke 22:38)

If Jesus was in favor of sword regulations, it stands to reason that he would be in favor of gun regulations.

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Re: An American Problem

Post #20

Post by thomasdixon »

Ar15’s are military weapons designed to kill people, period. Since Biden is the commander in chief of our military and the AR-15 is a military weapon, Biden could order these weapons to be barred from civilian use. Biden could by back the weapons and fine anyone who refuses to give them up.
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