Are American elections free and fair?

[historia]

According to Pew, the percentage of Americans expressing confidence that our elections will be run well has dropped from four years ago (2018), especially among voters who support Republican candidates (-30%).

Question for debate: Are elections in the United States free and fair?

[Daedalus X]

They are not free and fair.

The best evidence in my opinion is the refusal of the press to investigate and still come out and say "this is the freest and fairest election in the history of America, and there is not even a hint of fraud anywhere".

Here is a video that is a bit long but worth the watch, maybe run at 2X speed. Let's see if we get a rerun of the same playbook tomorrow.

https://rumble.com/v10ajh2-how-the-did- ... -on-t.html

[Jose Fly]

Of course they are. None of this "election integrity" nonsense started until Trump became the GOP leader. But apparently no one in the GOP cares about, or paid attention to the fact that Trump calls just about every election that doesn't go the way he wants "rigged". It's basically his catch phrase.

One thing l like to ask Trumpists is, since they truly believe the 2020 election was clearly and obviously stolen, why can't a single one of Trump's lawyers prove it in court? That gives us two options...either the notion of a "stolen election" is truly a big lie, or Trump is too dumb and incompetent to hire decent lawyers.

The fact that Sidney Powell said in a court filing that "no reasonable person" would take her election fraud claims as fact very clearly shows that the former is true....it's all one big gigantic lie, sold to many of the same people who are dumb enough to throw their money at televangelists.

[Daedalus X]

None of this "election integrity" nonsense started until Trump became the GOP leader. But apparently no one in the GOP cares about, or paid attention to the fact that Trump calls just about every election that doesn't go the way he wants "rigged". It's basically his catch phrase.

It intensified when Trump was elected in 2016 but it did start before. Take a look at this video.



The Democrats have been doing mail in scams since the Civil War.

Mail-in ballots were part of a plot to deny Lincoln reelection in 1864

[Jose Fly]

None of this "election integrity" nonsense started until Trump became the GOP leader. But apparently no one in the GOP cares about, or paid attention to the fact that Trump calls just about every election that doesn't go the way he wants "rigged". It's basically his catch phrase.

It intensified when Trump was elected in 2016 but it did start before. Take a look at this video.



The Democrats have been doing mail in scams since the Civil War.

Mail-in ballots were part of a plot to deny Lincoln reelection in 1864

If you're a 2020 election denier, then address the points specific to that election that I raised.

[Daedalus X]

If you're a 2020 election denier, then address the points specific to that election that I raised.

Yes, let's overlook the real election deniers and focus on the orange man bad.

Did you watch the link I posted in Post #2? Nether did the courts, they did not have the time. But, if anyone can watch that video and still say that the 2020 election was the most honest and fairest election ever, then they should be grateful that they managed to escape from the Stalinist USSR.

[Jose Fly]

Did you watch the link I posted in Post #2? Nether did the courts, they did not have the time.

What are talking about? What specific court said they "didn't have the time"?

But, if anyone can watch that video and still say that the 2020 election was the most honest and fairest election ever, then they should be grateful that they managed to escape from the Stalinist USSR.

You're just repeating yourself while ignoring inconvenient facts. Again, why couldn't Trump's lawyers prove a single thing in court? Was it all a big lie, or is Trump too stupid to hire competent attorneys? And why did Sidney Powell say in a court filing that no reasonable person would take her fraud claims as fact?

[Daedalus X]

What are talking about? What specific court said they "didn't have the time"?

The Supreme Court told Trump that he lacked standing, how a state decides their electors is their business and if the state is happy with their electors then that is it, the Supreme Court need not be involved. And they dropped the case without hearing the evidence.

Again, why couldn't Trump's lawyers prove a single thing in court?

Mostly because they were not asked to prove anything, as they did not have standing. Did any court hear the evidence of fraud? I don't know of any that did, but if you can provide the transcript I will be happy to evaluate it.

Was it all a big lie, or is Trump too stupid to hire competent attorneys?

I would say neither, it is just that the law is the way it is. It is like a friend got audited by the IRS and he had to spend a lot of money on lawyers and accountants and then at the end of the process the IRS said your taxes were perfect, and have a nice day. But no refund for all the money spent. The law is not perfect, sometimes the crooks get away with murder.

But what happens when a cheat wins the White House? Mostly business as usual because fraud is the norm in politics.

And why did Sidney Powell say in a court filing that no reasonable person would take her fraud claims as fact?

I Don't know about Powell, I can only speculate but if you give me the wording of her fraud claims, we can maybe work it out.

Before the inauguration there were a lot of theories on how the cheating was done, and very little time to investigate the facts, before Biden was sworn in. After the swearing in we would be in new territory where no man has gone before.

But now we have had time to investigate and we know how the cheating was done, but with his term half over it would be problematic to ask Biden to step down.


Also, at the end of the day the government was never able to verify their basic claim that this was the fairest election in history, which makes me think that they were just gaslighting the nation.

[Jose Fly]

The Supreme Court told Trump that he lacked standing

You don't even have your facts straight. The SCOTUS held that the State Attorneys General didn't have standing, not Trump.

how a state decides their electors is their business and if the state is happy with their electors then that is it, the Supreme Court need not be involved. And they dropped the case without hearing the evidence.

What the heck are you even talking about? Each of the states certified their results and appointed Presidential Electors accordingly, which is how Biden became President.

Do you even understand how elections work?

Again, why couldn't Trump's lawyers prove a single thing in court?

Mostly because they were not asked to prove anything, as they did not have standing.

Do you even live in the US? Are you not even aware that it is the responsibility of those claiming fraud to show their evidence of such to the courts? Or are you thinking Trump's lawyers had to wait for a court to ask first?

Did any court hear the evidence of fraud? I don't know of any that did, but if you can provide the transcript I will be happy to evaluate it.

Well who's fault is that? If Trump's lawyers were so unbelievably incompetent that they didn't even bother presenting any evidence of fraud to any court, how can any Trumpist complain about the courts?

Again, do you live in the US?

But what happens when a cheat wins the White House? Mostly business as usual because fraud is the norm in politics.

Can't say because that's never happened.

I Don't know about Powell, I can only speculate but if you give me the wording of her fraud claims, we can maybe work it out.

I gave you a link earlier. Go back and read.

Before the inauguration there were a lot of theories on how the cheating was done, and very little time to investigate the facts, before Biden was sworn in. After the swearing in we would be in new territory where no man has gone before.

But now we have had time to investigate and we know how the cheating was done, but with his term half over it would be problematic to ask Biden to step down.

If what you say is true, again.....why haven't any of Trump's lawyers presented any evidence of this cheating to a court?

[Daedalus X]

The SCOTUS held that the State Attorneys General didn't have standing, not Trump.

Okay, you understand what standing means, and I think you understand that when a case is not heard by reason of standing that no evidence is presented.

Each of the states certified their results and appointed Presidential Electors accordingly, which is how Biden became President.

Yes, the states appoint electors according to the states rules, and other states have no say in how that is done. If Nevada allows dead people to vote by mail, then Texas does not get to interfere in that procedure.

Mostly because they were not asked to prove anything, as they did not have standing.

Are you not even aware that it is the responsibility of those claiming fraud to show their evidence of such to the courts? Or are you thinking Trump's lawyers had to wait for a court to ask first?

Which part of "they did not have standing" did you not understand?

Did any court hear the evidence of fraud? I don't know of any that did, but if you can provide the transcript I will be happy to evaluate it.

Well who's fault is that? If Trump's lawyers were so unbelievably incompetent that they didn't even bother presenting any evidence of fraud to any court, how can any Trumpist complain about the courts?

I am no lawyer so don't take my word for it but, when someone goes to court they will file a complaint then the defendant will file a response and if they can't settle their differences, the Judge will calendar all the details and there will be discovery and motions and then a jury will be chosen and the trial will begin, and only then will the lawyers present the evidence. So it is not about "they didn't even bother presenting any evidence". It is about the procedure never got to that point.

But what happens when a cheat wins the White House? Mostly business as usual because fraud is the norm in politics.

Can't say because that's never happened.

Actually it did happen before, we tried to remove him from office (boy did we ever try and try) but fortunately all we had to endure was all those mean tweets in the middle of the night and the darn covid sniffles.

I Don't know about Powell, I can only speculate but if you give me the wording of her fraud claims, we can maybe work it out.

I gave you a link earlier. Go back and read.

I tried that but I could not find her exact words, that were so offensive, maybe you could just copy and paste them, so I will know exactly what you are trying to get onto.

If what you say is true, again.....why haven't any of Trump's lawyers presented any evidence of this cheating to a court?

I think that Trump understands that the system does not care and if he tries to take this to court it can be held up for years, with appeals and all. So before all is said and done, Trump will be leaving the White House and handing the keys to Ron DeSantis.