The Christian, Pro-Life, Pro-Kerry, Anti-Bush Argument

Two hot topics for the price of one

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Spongemom
Student
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:48 pm
Location: Southeast Kansas
Contact:

The Christian, Pro-Life, Pro-Kerry, Anti-Bush Argument

Post #1

Post by Spongemom »

The Christian, Pro-Life, Pro-Kerry, Anti-Bush Argument

I recognize the conflict experienced when considering casting your vote for John Kerry when what you hold dear is your intrinsic faith and pro-life beliefs. George Bush has openly discussed his religious beliefs in forums designed to sway your opinion. Christian words ring hollow though without Christian actions to back them up.
Point One: Jesus Christ is the Prince of Peace, not the Prince of War. George Bush is proud of saying that he is a “War President”. When he criticizes John Kerry, it is for the very possibility of trying to find more peaceful resolutions to the Iraq War. Bush is not only against trying to bring in our international allies but portrays Kerry as weak for even considering a peaceful solution.
Point Three: Pro-life, should mean all life, including those who have committed crimes. You cannot claim biblical justification for defending the life of the unborn while you take pleasure in the execution of the accused. As Governor of Texas, Bush presided over the executions of 152 people. In addition, he mocked one of the women he put to death. Republican journalist Tucker Carlson described it as follows:

“Bush mimicking the woman's final plea for her life. "'Please,' Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, 'don't kill me.'"
These only scratch the surface. Bush has not walked a Christian life. He has not led as a Christian. It is a vast difference between saying Jesus Christ is your favorite philosopher and actually following his teachings. Bush wraps himself up in the flag to instill false patriotism. He wraps himself up in the bible without following its commands, and thus becomes a false prophet. George Bush has said that God told him to “strike at Saddam”. Do you believe that God instructed him to “shock and awe” the Iraqis? Do you believe that God told him to kill over 20,000 Iraqi civilians? There is nothing biblical or Christian about this war. There is nothing pro-life about 20,000 deaths. You must not vote this election based on empty words. You must look at deeds and what they stand for. If you are basing your decision on being pro-life for religious beliefs, then it is your duty to look at all of George W. Bush in religious terms and hold him to the standard of the Word of God, which he claims to read every day.
I am not going to get into my personal opinion of George Bush. That would take far too long. I will, however, say that for those who do believe in a God, following Bush at the same time is hypocritical. He is a religious fanatic almost to the point of insanity. Claiming Jesus as his "favorite philosopher", and then condemning liberals as being "unpatriotic" when Jesus himself was a liberal. Amazing how that works, ain't it? ;)
A friend of mine, in response to this, wrote:Kerry's religious views don't matter one way or the other to the Christian Right. It's kind of hard to get between a man who thinks he talks to God -- and that God talks back -- and the people who believe him rather than wondering if it's a sign of a neurological disorder, i.e. temporal lobe seizures caused by alcohol and drug abuse which are causing hallucinations.
If we are going to teach creation science as an alternative to evolution,
then we should also teach the stork theory as an alternative to biological reproduction.

User avatar
Piper Plexed
Site Supporter
Posts: 400
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:20 am
Location: New Jersey, USA

Post #11

Post by Piper Plexed »

Spongemom wrote:Haaretz is not a person. It is a newspaper. Apparently, you did not read those links. And it wasn't a speech, it was an interview. As for a transcript, this article pretty much sums it all up.
Yes I did brief them and what I saw was Editorial, which is fine and if I really cared what these folks felt I would invest the time in reading word for word.

My Challenge to you was to supply a basic level of supporting evidence to your supposition that Bush is Psychotic as opposed to contemplative. Dates, Times, transcripts of Speeches and Interviews do quite nicely as supporting evidence and are generally very accessible on the web. Like I said before Bush could very well be psychotic, heck I could be psychotic the point is that for me to accept such an assertion as fact, well... related proof would be helpful.

At the core of the argument is that he believes that God told him to do it, so I say OK now show me proof not hearsay and editorials. I find it hard to agree with or debate an argument based on opinion.
Spongemom wrote:Take it as proof, or don't, doesn't make a difference to me, but here is an evaluation of Bush and his mannerisms done by Dr. Justin Frank, director of psychiatry at George Washington University.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/p ... 4704.shtml
Well that was interesting and adds a level of substance though I guess I would have to buy the book to get to the bottom of this. Then again it is not my job to prove anothers position. Come on if he really is that nuts I am sure the proof is out there, right?
*"I think, therefore I am" (Cogito, ergo sum)-Descartes
** I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that ...

User avatar
Spongemom
Student
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:48 pm
Location: Southeast Kansas
Contact:

Post #12

Post by Spongemom »

I'm sure the proof is out there somewhere. Maybe I'm just not searching the right terms. I've read things before that I lost the links to that convinced me that George Bush is psychotic. What do you want me to do, go to the white house and ask him myself? They'd shoot me. I'm not trying to sound rude, but what is there besides a professional psychiatrist evaluation of the man? If you asked anyone affiliated with the Bush administration about his mental competence, I guarantee you'd never get a straight answer. Regardless of how many times he screams "Keep those mother fuckers away from me!" his cronies would cover his ass to no end.

Here, have an unauthorized biography:

http://www.the7thfire.com/bush24.htm

Here's a clip of him immediately before a speech to the American people:

http://www.jokaroo.com/ecards/funnymovi ... inger.html

I'm waiting on a response from Snopes about the quote in question, I'll post it as soon as I get something.
If we are going to teach creation science as an alternative to evolution,
then we should also teach the stork theory as an alternative to biological reproduction.

User avatar
otseng
Savant
Posts: 20520
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Has thanked: 197 times
Been thanked: 337 times
Contact:

Post #13

Post by otseng »

Regardless of how many times he screams "Keep those mother fuckers away from me!" his cronies would cover his ass to no end.
I would like to ask that you refrain from any profanity on the forum. This is in violation to rule 2.

2. Nothing "R" rated is allowed (this includes profanity and anything of sexual nature).

Thank you for your cooperation.

User avatar
Spongemom
Student
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:48 pm
Location: Southeast Kansas
Contact:

Post #14

Post by Spongemom »

My apologies. I was simply quoting the president.
If we are going to teach creation science as an alternative to evolution,
then we should also teach the stork theory as an alternative to biological reproduction.

nikolayevich
Scholar
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:51 pm
Location: Vancouver

Post #15

Post by nikolayevich »

While I'm personally not a big fan of either primary candidate in the election, I don't believe that Jesus can be used as an example of a Liberal in the likeness of today's Democrats. (In response to the statement that Jesus was the first Liberal)

He was nothing like either party as it stands today. He was more libertarian than modern Liberal. The difference is something that seems to be lost on this generation.
Spongemom wrote: I am not going to get into my personal opinion of George Bush. That would take far too long. I will, however, say that for those who do believe in a God, following Bush at the same time is hypocritical. He is a religious fanatic almost to the point of insanity. Claiming Jesus as his "favorite philosopher", and then condemning liberals as being "unpatriotic" when Jesus himself was a liberal. Amazing how that works, ain't it? ;)
Arguing that a claim to be a follower of Jesus while he (Bush) calls some from the other party, "unpatriotic", is hardly a paradox beyond the pale of everyday politics, and unfortunately, especially in the 21st century. I am personally made uneasy by the vitriolic nature of both party's campaigns against each other. As I say though, Jesus was not like the modern Liberal, and perhaps to be more clear, was certainly not a Democrat (or Republican).

There is a rise in attempts to show Christians in America that their current president is not Christ-like and that therefore he should not be voted for. But there is no Christ-like replacement. So it is a zero sum point.

I don't believe He would be proud of the Republicans today either.
Spongemom wrote:Take it as proof, or don't, doesn't make a difference to me, but here is an evaluation of Bush and his mannerisms done by Dr. Justin Frank, director of psychiatry at George Washington University.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/p ... 4704.shtml
That we need a psychiatrist to tell us that a politician is "a case study in contradiction" is truly funny, especially coming from a partisan doc. I think that any politician that rises to the level of the presidency will be presented this way by his opponents, whether they are professionally able to make that decision or not.

I'm less concerned with whether “George wanted to please his father but never felt he measured up, especially when compared to Jeb,” than I am with what each political leader does in his/her country and the world. Presidents are acquainted with daily problems that many "healthy" people would simply not be able to deal with at all. There is a known toll of public office, the higher up the ladder one climbs. People often quip that they would never want the president's job, citing the continuous flow of events that age one so quickly. Being the CEO of a company is known to be highly stressful at times (heart attacks abound), so we can logically deduce that the CEO of a country will have proportionately increased liabilities. With this increase, though I am no expert, I imagine it is reasonable to assume, that smaller neuroses may become more visible.

I simply wouldn't bank on "experts" to tell us the value or lack thereof present in a presidential candidate. We are all smart enough to do our homework, no? Perhaps I'm being too simplistic since I don't live in the US and am merely an observer. Today, perhaps as much as ever, propaganda on every side of a debate abounds. Everyone must know where they stand and measure their candidates against that, not the other way around.

Democrats today are nothing like what they once were, and the Republicans don't fit their own originality either. I don't envy the voters, though I hope you all will make your decisions based on reason and sound judgment rather than emotion or frustration. That isn't to say your votes would be different, but simply that you can have confirmation you are making the vote in line with your values.

Post Reply