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Post #91
And pychologically, that would end up being better, because drugs wouldn't have that romantic, mysterious, look to kids like it does when it's illegal.
Yeah. but not economically. The price would go down so demand would go up. Then once the kids start doing cocaine and the like it wouldn't be a psychological thing anymore it would physical.
And don't give me that stuff about how hard it is to get cigarettes or alcohol. I've been able to get alcohol since I was 14.
Post #92
Let me tell you, I am 21 years old now, and when I was 10, I was able to buy whatever I wanted, well, at least cigirettes.
Now, I can't get cigirettes or beer without an ID, and my boyfriend, who is 26 and without an ID, can't get them at all, or go into a bar.
My point though, is less about addiction than about personal freedom. Sure, kids might get hooked on drugs if they were legal, but would it be more than now? Those same kids wouldn't be getting locked up for it though, they might get some help. We, as tax payers, wouldn't foot the bill for kids getting locked up for possession, and maybe addicts would be able to get real help, since all of the nations with more tolerant attitudes towards drugs have better health plans towards drug addicts, some even treat it as the physical and pychological disease it is, and not like a criminal act.
You know, we both can go on and on, making valid points for the other to refute for the rest of our lives and not sway the other person. I'm going to cut it down to my 3 main reasons for wanting them legalized, and you do the same.
1. I have the right to do with my body what I wish. I realize that drugs alter your perception of reality, so laws against driving, ect, which will help my decisions not effect others are alright, as long as there is a system to test for drugs like Marijuana, which stay in your fat cells for 30 days, so that you don't test positive when you aren't under the influence. As long as my actions aren't hurting anyone, or invading their rights, I have the right to use recreational drugs.
2. By having drug illegal, we are creating a whole class of criminals, who are being incarcerated, fined, and even sent to jail, for a victemless crime. Not only is our government making LOTS of money off ot this, but we are paying for it as well, with our hard-earned money. AND THE DRUG PROBLEM CONTINUES TO EXIST, we aren't talking about a temporary problem, we are talking about this problem existing as long as there are drug laws.
3. Because of drugs illegality, medicinal uses for many drugs, not only marijuana, aren't being utilized to their full potential because of the connotation around drugs and their uses. Some states have banned outright any TESTING or SURVEYS of possible medicinal used of banned schedule 1 narcotics, and other states won't allow the use of medical narcotics (currently illegal) within their states, even when their uses have been proven through testing and research. If those drugs were illegal independent agencies across the US would be able to conduct testing of narcotics to see what, if any, medicinal uses there are for many drugs. Plus, side effects would be widely know for drugs such as X, which many people OD on, just because they are uneducated.
Now, I can't get cigirettes or beer without an ID, and my boyfriend, who is 26 and without an ID, can't get them at all, or go into a bar.
My point though, is less about addiction than about personal freedom. Sure, kids might get hooked on drugs if they were legal, but would it be more than now? Those same kids wouldn't be getting locked up for it though, they might get some help. We, as tax payers, wouldn't foot the bill for kids getting locked up for possession, and maybe addicts would be able to get real help, since all of the nations with more tolerant attitudes towards drugs have better health plans towards drug addicts, some even treat it as the physical and pychological disease it is, and not like a criminal act.
You know, we both can go on and on, making valid points for the other to refute for the rest of our lives and not sway the other person. I'm going to cut it down to my 3 main reasons for wanting them legalized, and you do the same.
1. I have the right to do with my body what I wish. I realize that drugs alter your perception of reality, so laws against driving, ect, which will help my decisions not effect others are alright, as long as there is a system to test for drugs like Marijuana, which stay in your fat cells for 30 days, so that you don't test positive when you aren't under the influence. As long as my actions aren't hurting anyone, or invading their rights, I have the right to use recreational drugs.
2. By having drug illegal, we are creating a whole class of criminals, who are being incarcerated, fined, and even sent to jail, for a victemless crime. Not only is our government making LOTS of money off ot this, but we are paying for it as well, with our hard-earned money. AND THE DRUG PROBLEM CONTINUES TO EXIST, we aren't talking about a temporary problem, we are talking about this problem existing as long as there are drug laws.
3. Because of drugs illegality, medicinal uses for many drugs, not only marijuana, aren't being utilized to their full potential because of the connotation around drugs and their uses. Some states have banned outright any TESTING or SURVEYS of possible medicinal used of banned schedule 1 narcotics, and other states won't allow the use of medical narcotics (currently illegal) within their states, even when their uses have been proven through testing and research. If those drugs were illegal independent agencies across the US would be able to conduct testing of narcotics to see what, if any, medicinal uses there are for many drugs. Plus, side effects would be widely know for drugs such as X, which many people OD on, just because they are uneducated.
Post #93
They most likely will invade people rights. Not to mention hurt society as a whole. I just don't think anything good will come from making drugs legal.1. I have the right to do with my body what I wish. I realize that drugs alter your perception of reality, so laws against driving, ect, which will help my decisions not effect others are alright, as long as there is a system to test for drugs like Marijuana, which stay in your fat cells for 30 days, so that you don't test positive when you aren't under the influence. As long as my actions aren't hurting anyone, or invading their rights, I have the right to use recreational drugs.
Are things really that bad because you can't get torn up on some rocket fuel?
A2. By having drug illegal, we are creating a whole class of criminals, who are being incarcerated, fined, and even sent to jail, for a victemless crime. Not only is our government making LOTS of money off ot this, but we are paying for it as well, with our hard-earned money. AND THE DRUG PROBLEM CONTINUES TO EXIST, we aren't talking about a temporary problem, we are talking about this problem existing as long as there are drug laws.
victimless crime eh? Alot of crackheads get arrested for rape, murder, robbery, et cetera. Drugs make you do things you wouldn't do in normal situations. Those things are hardly ever good things.
Most of the criminals put in jail are the dealers and trafficers. I know at least 5 people that have been caught with marijuana and only got a slap on the wrist. You have to be into some serious stuff or a repeat offender to be put in prison.
Post #94
Actually, it depends entirely on the state, in CA, having an ounce or less is a fine, kinda like a parking ticket. Here, where I live, in VA, anything more than a gram is a jailable offense.Most of the criminals put in jail are the dealers and trafficers. I know at least 5 people that have been caught with marijuana and only got a slap on the wrist. You have to be into some serious stuff or a repeat offender to be put in prison.
A lot of people get in car accidents and kill people, the government hasn't outlawed cars.A
victimless crime eh? Alot of crackheads get arrested for rape, murder, robbery, et cetera. Drugs make you do things you wouldn't do in normal situations. Those things are hardly ever good things.
I would like for you to give me an example of one way that legal drugs would invade someone's rights, that alcohol and tobacco doesn't do.They most likely will invade people rights. Not to mention hurt society as a whole. I just don't think anything good will come from making drugs legal.
Are things really that bad because you can't get torn up on some rocket fuel?
Look, I'm not saying that I NEED to have drugs legal. I'm doing plenty and finding them easily with the illegal. However, I feel like my personal rights are being violated, and I feel that the rights of people who are sent to jail for something that is NO DIFFERENT than having a drink in a bar, are being violated, and I was taught that when I thought my rights were being violated to stand up and say something about it. Not to mention, talk to others about it.
You don't have to agree with me, you dont have to like drugs, hell, you can take the same stance as Reagan did. The fact of the matter is, drugs being illegal is making the government far more money than they would make otherwise, so drugs are going to stay illegal.
Don't think for one second that any of those hypocrites actually have your best interests at heart, they are doing what they can to control you and get more power. The second you realize that you will be screaming for the laws to be appealed. And if you don't want to do drugs, guess what, you don't have to. But all those people in jail won't be there anymore, the people killing on the streets and getting killed over drug deals and trying to cop something, will all be alive, and the people getting AIDS because dirty needles are the only thing they have to shoot up with won't be sick.
Even if it does hurt your sensibilities, sounds to me like a pretty fair trade.
Post #95
Cars are necessary. Drugs are not. Cars promote a productive society. Drugs do not.A lot of people get in car accidents and kill people, the government hasn't outlawed cars.
First off. A drink in the bar is far different from cocaine, heroine, or crack. Second, I don't think the government has to give you the right to use whatever drug you want. Third the Government could make far more money if drugs were legalized. They could put a 20% tax on drugs and make billions upon billions of dollars. The reason drugs are illegal is not a monetary one. It has do with the people of the united states exercising their freedom and saying we don't want these drugs to be legal. So if you get your way a greater majority of America would have lost one of their freedoms.Look, I'm not saying that I NEED to have drugs legal. I'm doing plenty and finding them easily with the illegal. However, I feel like my personal rights are being violated, and I feel that the rights of people who are sent to jail for something that is NO DIFFERENT than having a drink in a bar, are being violated, and I was taught that when I thought my rights were being violated to stand up and say something about it. Not to mention, talk to others about it.
You don't have to agree with me, you dont have to like drugs, hell, you can take the same stance as Reagan did. The fact of the matter is, drugs being illegal is making the government far more money than they would make otherwise, so drugs are going to stay illegal.
Don't think for one second that any of those hypocrites actually have your best interests at heart, they are doing what they can to control you and get more power. The second you realize that you will be screaming for the laws to be appealed. And if you don't want to do drugs, guess what, you don't have to. But all those people in jail won't be there anymore, the people killing on the streets and getting killed over drug deals and trying to cop something, will all be alive, and the people getting AIDS because dirty needles are the only thing they have to shoot up with won't be sick.
Even if it does hurt your sensibilities, sounds to me like a pretty fair trade.
Post #96
It has do with the people of the united states exercising their freedom and saying we don't want these drugs to be legal. So if you get your way a greater majority of America would have lost one of their freedoms.
Since when is inhibiting the freedoms of others a freedom in and of itself?
I have the freedom to carry a gun. If that freedom is taken away, does that mean that other people are exercising their freedom to take mine away? It doesn't even make any sense. That is the whole point that I am trying to make. Why is my personal, recreational drug use anyone else's business? I'm not inhibiting the freedoms of others by smoking marijuana in my home. I'm not inhibiting the freedoms of others by hallucinating with shrooms or LSD, or by taking speed or coke. How am I hurting, or inhibing the freedoms of anyone else?
The fact is the government's job is supposed to be minimal. My speaking my mind might offend someone, but it isn't taking away their freedoms, in actually, mine would be taked away if I were silenced. It is the same concept with drugs. My smoking weed or doing coke, ect., might offend someone, but it sure as hell isn't taking away their rights. Mine are the rights that are being infringed upon, because I am an adult, I can go fight and die for my country, I can be convicted of a crime, I am accountable for all my taxes and debts, I can smoke cigirettes (for now) and drink, but I can't do drugs? Tell me, what is the difference?
The Mayan and Incan civilizations chewed cocoa leaves before entering to battle or going into work for hundreds of years. It promoted a productive society there.Cars are necessary. Drugs are not. Cars promote a productive society. Drugs do not.
But, you know, that's not even the point. Who has the right to say that all my actions have to "benefit the society" or that I have to be productive. If the government came into your home and tried to force you to be more productive you would instantly be up in arms. It is not the govenment's place to regulate my personality, or my moral choices, or my body and the actions that I try to take with it. Why are we gaining so much ground in the arguement against the old sodomy laws, but still aren't gaining any headway in drug law?
How different is it? How many people died last year in alcohol related deaths? Well, in 2000 it was 85,000, not to mention the 400,000 from tobacco. Do you know how many people died from marijuana? 0. Do you know how many people died from all other illicit drugs combined? 17,000. So I guess you are right. A drink in the bar IS far different from drug use. (http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm#item1)A drink in the bar is far different from cocaine, heroine, or crack
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nikolayevich
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Post #97
The unfortunate thing is that statistics can be used to say just about anything, or all about nothing. I would agree that an unfortunate truth is that too many people are killed from alcohol and tobacco abuse. That said, "Private use only," is an argument that ignores public consequence- even global societal consequence. One's choice to support any business has repercussions. (I'll be the first to admit it's worse with opiates where the "business" involves little kids working in terrible conditions in Columbia, etc.)Moonchild wrote:How different is it? How many people died last year in alcohol related deaths? Well, in 2000 it was 85,000, not to mention the 400,000 from tobacco. Do you know how many people died from marijuana? 0. Do you know how many people died from all other illicit drugs combined? 17,000. So I guess you are right. A drink in the bar IS far different from drug use. (http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm#item1)A drink in the bar is far different from cocaine, heroine, or crack
In addition, cities have admitted that there is no practical way to measure how many people are killed using marijuana and that therefore... it is not measured. One specific example of this comes from my home town. Police were prompted to test drivers for operating under the influence of marijuana along with the standard alcohol-breathalizer. The basic response was, "we don't have the means to do it". Now, we have one of the most proactive safe-driving programs around and I imagine would be one of the first to do a pot test if feasible because of the demand. Again, this zero number is upheld by proponents of legalization, even suggesting at times that it is not dangerous to drive under the influence of pot. It is based on an absence of data, not corroborated fact.
I'm not a drug expert by any means, but I believe that to say "0" are killed is unfortunately not founded on anything scientific. Living in BC (the northwest pot capital) I hear this "0" number thrown around all the time, as well as other comments about the alleged innocuous properties of the drug. It is completely rhetorical. I don't believe pot is the biggest problem but there are countless things that are left out of today's conversation on the matter. It's also said that it is not the gateway drug anti-pot groups claim it is, although I imagine that most people actually know someone (I do) who started out experimenting with pot, and eventually moved to other drugs. Let's face it, less people start out fooling around with cocaine, than mary jane.
Post #98
One of my biggest problems with cops testing people for driving under the influence of marijuana, is that there isn't a test available now that can determine whether or not someone is actually high on the drug. The best our tests can do is determine if it has been smoked in the last, say 30 days.
I understand your point about the 0 deaths that marijana causes a year. I really do. However, don't you think that if our government could put those statistics out there they would? Don't you think that if a marijuana overdose was possible it would be thrown around in the news and papers just to make people think that those laws are actually in place for a reason. I know they would do that.
The fact is marijuana isn't going to kill you. It is a mild hallucinagen, and sure,you shouldn't drive on it, but you can't drive, or shouldn't, on numerous pharmacuticals because of similiar impairments it will cause. That in and of itself is no reason for it to be illegal.
I understand your point about the 0 deaths that marijana causes a year. I really do. However, don't you think that if our government could put those statistics out there they would? Don't you think that if a marijuana overdose was possible it would be thrown around in the news and papers just to make people think that those laws are actually in place for a reason. I know they would do that.
The fact is marijuana isn't going to kill you. It is a mild hallucinagen, and sure,you shouldn't drive on it, but you can't drive, or shouldn't, on numerous pharmacuticals because of similiar impairments it will cause. That in and of itself is no reason for it to be illegal.
Post #99
I also want to say that pot IS a gateway drug, but that is only because it is illegal. The thinking is somewhere along the lines of.... "but the police officer in my Dare class said that it was going to be bad for me... and it just makes me happy. I'm already breaking the law, and this wasn't that bad, lets go trip balls."
Come on, if marijuana weren't illegal that line of thinking would't exist. Once you're already breaking current drug laws, and you see that there isn't anything wrong with it, it is easier to go to different drugs.
Come on, if marijuana weren't illegal that line of thinking would't exist. Once you're already breaking current drug laws, and you see that there isn't anything wrong with it, it is easier to go to different drugs.
Post #100
They also did mass sacrifices. You suggest we do that as well?The Mayan and Incan civilizations chewed cocoa leaves before entering to battle or going into work for hundreds of years. It promoted a productive society there.
