The Church of the True Religion...A message from Thomas Orr.
A movement for a better tomorrow: Freedomgates
"The true religion is secular and it does not engage in "converting the sinners" business. The true religion does not want to convert anybody. On the contrary, it teaches and practices deep respect for every genuine belief coming from the heart and from a valued tradition. God does not want to convert you even if you are an atheist who does not believe in God. Everybody has the right to follow its own heart, mind and conscience. In the end you may conclude that Humanity is your only Religion, Breath is your only Prayer, and Consciousness is your only God, as Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath revealed, and I will be happy with your conclusion. Nobody has a monopoly on the truth and any attempt to claim otherwise will be shattered and ridiculed in the end. All I hope for is that we can understand each other on a deeper level than superficial differences of language and words."
Thomas Orr is my prophet. I am here to spread his message.
True Religion is Secular
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BeHereNow
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True Religion is Secular
Post #1A special transmission outside the scriptures;
Depending not on words and letters;
Pointing directly to the human mind;
Seeing into one''s nature, one becomes a Buddha.
Depending not on words and letters;
Pointing directly to the human mind;
Seeing into one''s nature, one becomes a Buddha.
Re: True Religion is Secular
Post #2But BHN, what qualifies this as a 'religion'? What you have written is more the expression of an attitude, or a stance, a pluralistic one, to the presence of other belief systems in the world, but i do not see how that can be attributed to being a true religion, even though such an attitude might be a component of religions.BeHereNow wrote:The Church of the True Religion...A message from Thomas Orr.
A movement for a better tomorrow: Freedomgates
"The true religion is secular and it does not engage in "converting the sinners" business. The true religion does not want to convert anybody. On the contrary, it teaches and practices deep respect for every genuine belief coming from the heart and from a valued tradition. God does not want to convert you even if you are an atheist who does not believe in God. Everybody has the right to follow its own heart, mind and conscience. In the end you may conclude that Humanity is your only Religion, Breath is your only Prayer, and Consciousness is your only God, as Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath revealed, and I will be happy with your conclusion. Nobody has a monopoly on the truth and any attempt to claim otherwise will be shattered and ridiculed in the end. All I hope for is that we can understand each other on a deeper level than superficial differences of language and words."
Thomas Orr is my prophet. I am here to spread his message.
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BeHereNow
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Post #3
I was not trying to construct a belief system with all of the elements of a religion. You are right in that.
This is a statement of a vital characteristic of any Church which would offer itself up to society as a path to Eternal Life, Enlightenment, Harmonious Being, whatever. Churches really should be like grocery stores, as mundane as that may sound. I’m not comparing the Human Soul to chopped liver here, so please don’t go there. I’m saying Religions (I like the word “church” better, but that implies Christianity, and this applies to all faiths) should present themselves as a potential path to finding God. Most religions, as they are being experienced today, are mutually exclusive. In the end they all want to kill each other. Over and over again history repeats itself. Now history repeats a lot of things, and it does no good to say “Look at all of the peaceful co-existences among various faiths”.
1) Can we agree that at one time or another all of the major religions have gone on a crusade to kill or convert every human being within reach?
2) Can we agree that every major religion has done great injury to “unbelievers” at one time or another?
3) Can we agree that every major religion has gone to war “knowing” God was on their side and would give them victory?
4) Can we agree that every major religion claims to be the only true path to God?
5) Can we agree that either the major religions of the world need to learn to co-exist or in the end only One World Religion will exist, and that vast amount of humans not willing to give up their “true” faith, will be killed rather than converted?
These are not rhetorical questions. They need to be answered. If you disagree you must tell me why they are not true.
If we agree with them, we have an either/or choice. Either we learn to live together, or we may as well start the killing right now. For me and mine, we choose to live without killing.
Now how are all of the religions going to co-exist in a world that espouses Freedom?
They have to present themselves to society as a choice. What they offer has to compete in the spiritual marketplace. They have to realize that their religion is the Only Way for themselves, but not for other persons. If the laws of the society do not conform to their religion they need to change things in a “rational” manner. The appeal to authority is not suitable. My God is as good as your God. You have to give me a better reason. Please don’t tell me your God is the only God. If you convince me of that, one of us is going to kill the other. Not today. Maybe not in this generation. Maybe not even this century. Or it might be next week. For me and mine, we don’t want to see it come to that.
Can’t we all just get along?
I hope you understand now that “the True Religion” does not mean THE True Religion, as in singular. It means if a religion is real, and true, it will be here forever. The hook is, this applies to all religions. All have to admit that the understanding of God that they have is a personal experience. They can’t all exist if they are mutually exclusive. In a shrinking world it just won’t work. They have to allow each other to live.
You only have freedom if you give it away.
I write these things in accordance with the teachings of The Gatekeeper.
This is a statement of a vital characteristic of any Church which would offer itself up to society as a path to Eternal Life, Enlightenment, Harmonious Being, whatever. Churches really should be like grocery stores, as mundane as that may sound. I’m not comparing the Human Soul to chopped liver here, so please don’t go there. I’m saying Religions (I like the word “church” better, but that implies Christianity, and this applies to all faiths) should present themselves as a potential path to finding God. Most religions, as they are being experienced today, are mutually exclusive. In the end they all want to kill each other. Over and over again history repeats itself. Now history repeats a lot of things, and it does no good to say “Look at all of the peaceful co-existences among various faiths”.
1) Can we agree that at one time or another all of the major religions have gone on a crusade to kill or convert every human being within reach?
2) Can we agree that every major religion has done great injury to “unbelievers” at one time or another?
3) Can we agree that every major religion has gone to war “knowing” God was on their side and would give them victory?
4) Can we agree that every major religion claims to be the only true path to God?
5) Can we agree that either the major religions of the world need to learn to co-exist or in the end only One World Religion will exist, and that vast amount of humans not willing to give up their “true” faith, will be killed rather than converted?
These are not rhetorical questions. They need to be answered. If you disagree you must tell me why they are not true.
If we agree with them, we have an either/or choice. Either we learn to live together, or we may as well start the killing right now. For me and mine, we choose to live without killing.
Now how are all of the religions going to co-exist in a world that espouses Freedom?
They have to present themselves to society as a choice. What they offer has to compete in the spiritual marketplace. They have to realize that their religion is the Only Way for themselves, but not for other persons. If the laws of the society do not conform to their religion they need to change things in a “rational” manner. The appeal to authority is not suitable. My God is as good as your God. You have to give me a better reason. Please don’t tell me your God is the only God. If you convince me of that, one of us is going to kill the other. Not today. Maybe not in this generation. Maybe not even this century. Or it might be next week. For me and mine, we don’t want to see it come to that.
Can’t we all just get along?
I hope you understand now that “the True Religion” does not mean THE True Religion, as in singular. It means if a religion is real, and true, it will be here forever. The hook is, this applies to all religions. All have to admit that the understanding of God that they have is a personal experience. They can’t all exist if they are mutually exclusive. In a shrinking world it just won’t work. They have to allow each other to live.
You only have freedom if you give it away.
I write these things in accordance with the teachings of The Gatekeeper.
A special transmission outside the scriptures;
Depending not on words and letters;
Pointing directly to the human mind;
Seeing into one''s nature, one becomes a Buddha.
Depending not on words and letters;
Pointing directly to the human mind;
Seeing into one''s nature, one becomes a Buddha.
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przemeknowicki
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Post #5
Solly wrote:Interesting site, and some interesting thoughts, mixed in with some craziness. Sort of anarcho-marxist americanocentric-pluralism.
This would be a good point to start a discussion. If you oblige. I am behind the writings of Thomas Orr and the Freedom Gates website. I did not ask BetterHereNow to promote me as a prophet but I don't object to what he does. Actually, I am very happy with his action as they prove that he meant what he wrote to me.
Your choice of adjectives describing my writings is very interesting. Let me shed a little light on that. Anarchism. I am very pleased with the Christian Anarchists and sympathetic to their movement. However, I am more intrigued by the initiatives better grounded in reality, Mondragon Cooperatives being the most prominent example, than by charity-like work of some well known Christian Anarchists.
I was born, raised and educated in a communist country and knowing all too well all the failures of the marxists ideology I can nevertheless appreciate those ideas that worked and in many areas made the old style communist regime more humane than American style capitalism.
Americanocentrism you see in my writings maybe a little misleading. If anything I am an European at heart. However, I live in America and I speak to American public. Should I move to UK I would try to sound anglocentric.
Finally, I am mostly pleased when my views are interpreted as the praise of pluralism. Spirituality like art is a never ending search for the ultimate perfection and beauty. A man with sophisticated taste can never settle for one ultimate musical composition and enjoy it exclusively for the rest of his life. Sadly, this is exactly many people's idea regarding their spiritual lives.
Finally, I noticed that someone's raised a question what makes my philosophy a religion. Here is my answer. Religion is supposed to reveal at least one important "truth" about the spiritual realm, the truth that makes a difference between those who embrace and follow it, and those who don't. Here is my truth. Christians know that faith without deeds is meaningless. I take this belief one (or more) step further teaching that deeds without education and wisdom don't amount to much.
Regards,
Thomas Orr
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przemeknowicki
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Post #6
BeHereNow wrote:Churches really should be like grocery stores, as mundane as that may sound.
BeHereNow, you earned the highest mark in understanding the role of Churches. Those who are shocked by the "diminished" stature of Churches should remember Jesus's words that those who are the lowest [by wordly standards] will rise to the highest stature in the Kingdom of God.
Regards,
Thomas Orr
