Abiogenesis and Probabilities

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DrNoGods
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Abiogenesis and Probabilities

Post #1

Post by DrNoGods »

I'm creating a new thread here to continue debate on a post made by EarthScience guy on another thread (Science and Religion > Artificial life: can it be created?, post 17). This post challenged probability calculations in an old Talkorigins article that I had linked in that thread:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/abioprob.html

Are the arguments (on creationist views) and probabilities presented reasonable in the Talkorigins article? If not, why not?
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Re: Abiogenesis and Probabilities

Post #341

Post by Noose001 »

Difflugia wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:16 am
Noose001 wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:04 amYes, it's part of it and i like being different.
What's the other part of bacterium and zygote awareness?
Generally, they are aware of need to survive; part of it is awareness of toxic environment, need to propagate, need of energy to survive e.t.c.

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Re: Abiogenesis and Probabilities

Post #342

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Noose001 wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:04 am
Difflugia wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:24 am
If chemotaxis and what you're calling awareness are the same thing, you're using "aware" much, much differently than everyone else is.

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Re: Abiogenesis and Probabilities

Post #343

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to DrNoGods in post #335]
How you got from that to your above quote is beyond me. My point was that the abortion debate has nothing to do with the physical development of a brain, because brain development proceeds independently of any religious (or otherwise) views humans may have on abortion. There are certainly many people who form opinions on when abortion may or may not be sensible (both under various circumstances, and gestation time), but physical brain development will occur regardless of those opinions. That was my point.
My apologies, I agree with what you said. I will fade in the background now.

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Re: Abiogenesis and Probabilities

Post #344

Post by JoeyKnothead »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:33 pm [Replying to DrNoGods in post #335]
How you got from that to your above quote is beyond me. My point was that the abortion debate has nothing to do with the physical development of a brain, because brain development proceeds independently of any religious (or otherwise) views humans may have on abortion. There are certainly many people who form opinions on when abortion may or may not be sensible (both under various circumstances, and gestation time), but physical brain development will occur regardless of those opinions. That was my point.
My apologies, I agree with what you said. I will fade in the background now.
Gotta respect a guy who can accept another's argument (that might go against his own - but I ain't saying that's what this is)

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Re: Abiogenesis and Probabilities

Post #345

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to EarthScienceguy in post #344]
My apologies, I agree with what you said. I will fade in the background now.
Thanks, and no problems ... I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't making comments on abortion itself, or the complicated issues surrounding that subject.
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Re: Abiogenesis and Probabilities

Post #346

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to Noose001 in post #340]
Yes, it's part of it and i like being different.
Then I'll sign up to Difflugia's Humpty Dumpty analogy, because if standard word definitions (eg. for "aware") are thrown out the window there is no ability to debate things from a science perspective. I take it you'd define consciousness similarly and we'd all need your custom dictionary handy in order to translate things properly (ie. back into standard English).
In human affairs the sources of success are ever to be found in the fountains of quick resolve and swift stroke; and it seems to be a law, inflexible and inexorable, that he who will not risk cannot win.
John Paul Jones, 1779

The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain

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Re: Abiogenesis and Probabilities

Post #347

Post by Noose001 »

DrNoGods wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:05 pm [Replying to Noose001 in post #340]
Yes, it's part of it and i like being different.
Then I'll sign up to Difflugia's Humpty Dumpty analogy, because if standard word definitions (eg. for "aware") are thrown out the window there is no ability to debate things from a science perspective. I take it you'd define consciousness similarly and we'd all need your custom dictionary handy in order to translate things properly (ie. back into standard English).
https://www.google.com/search?q=aware+m ... e&ie=UTF-8

It seems you and @Difflugia are wrong.
Yes, bacteria (without a brain or nerves) are aware of the environment. This is just part of life.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 143310.htm

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Re: Abiogenesis and Probabilities

Post #348

Post by brunumb »

Noose001 wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:06 am Yes, bacteria (without a brain or nerves) are aware of the environment. This is just part of life.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 143310.htm
In what way do bacteria demonstrate that they are aware of the environment? Please Note that simply responding to stimulus is not equivalent to awareness as per the definition you quoted.
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Re: Abiogenesis and Probabilities

Post #349

Post by Noose001 »

brunumb wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:46 am
Noose001 wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:06 am Yes, bacteria (without a brain or nerves) are aware of the environment. This is just part of life.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 143310.htm
In what way do bacteria demonstrate that they are aware of the environment? Please Note that simply responding to stimulus is not equivalent to awareness as per the definition you quoted.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 143310.htm

"We see now that bacteria are, in their way, big thinkers, and by knowing how they 'feel' about the environment around them, we can look at new and different ways to work with them."

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Re: Abiogenesis and Probabilities

Post #350

Post by brunumb »

Noose001 wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:07 am
brunumb wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:46 am
Noose001 wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:06 am Yes, bacteria (without a brain or nerves) are aware of the environment. This is just part of life.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 143310.htm
In what way do bacteria demonstrate that they are aware of the environment? Please Note that simply responding to stimulus is not equivalent to awareness as per the definition you quoted.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 143310.htm

"We see now that bacteria are, in their way, big thinkers, and by knowing how they 'feel' about the environment around them, we can look at new and different ways to work with them."

Story Source:

Materials provided by University of Tennessee at Knoxville. Note: Content may be edited for style and length.
Oh, dear. If you are going to reduce the discussion to absurdist theatre then it's time to move on. Enjoy the present. I will not exist, because I am in the past, or some nonsense like that. Now I just have to find an intelligent bacterium to engage in conversation.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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