Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

[John Human]

When I lived in Bali, I couldn't help observing the pervasive evidence of belief in demons. And of course demons put in an appearance in the Bible, not to mention in the gargoyles of old cathedrals.

On the other hand, modern science would seem to categorically reject the existence of demons, without a clear reason why, unless it has to do with the axiomatic presuppositions of science's governing ideology of reductionist materialism.

Question: Do demons exist? What evidence is there, for or against?

--

[Tcg]

Since demons are unclean spirits, and cannot be seen, you simply have to look for secondary evidence.

What's even more important is to accept the existence of demons beforehand so that when one sees so called "secondary evidence" one can insist it is the result of the demons one has already accepted as existent.




Tcg

[JoeyKnothead]

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=34395

Yes, science is limited in its ability to support theist claims.

But it is also limited in its ability to dismiss theist claims. That is my point. Science is of the intellect, religion is about consciousness. These are two ways of knowing the world.

Lol

If by consciousness you mean fairy tales, I can't argue.

[William]

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=34395

Yes, science is limited in its ability to support theist claims.

But it is also limited in its ability to dismiss theist claims. That is my point. Science is of the intellect, religion is about consciousness. These are two ways of knowing the world.

Lol

If by consciousness you mean fairy tales, I can't argue.

We can't have intellect without consciousness but it may be truth that religion [a branch of theism] is not so much about intellect...

[2ndpillar2]

Since demons are unclean spirits, and cannot be seen, you simply have to look for secondary evidence.

What's even more important is to accept the existence of demons beforehand so that when one sees so called "secondary evidence" one can insist it is the result of the demons one has already accepted as existent.



Tcg

Or when earth the shakes, and "every island fled away", and the "mountains were not found", and "huge hailstones, about one hundred pounds each, came down from heaven upon men", and "the cities of the nations fell", you could say that it was caused by "C", which is either by reason of manmade CO2 accumulation, or not enough shots of Covid gene therapy sauce, etc. (Revelation 16:16-21), which will happen after all the nations are gathered together in "Har-Magedon", or you could move out of the cities. I guess time will tell. I think scientific testing would require us to play out the clock and see. In the meantime, those who believe in "demons", those living in cities of the nations, which already have signs of demon activity, should get out of town. Those who believe in their moral superiority based on intelligence and education, can stay put and see how things work out.

[Tcg]

Since demons are unclean spirits, and cannot be seen, you simply have to look for secondary evidence.

What's even more important is to accept the existence of demons beforehand so that when one sees so called "secondary evidence" one can insist it is the result of the demons one has already accepted as existent.



Tcg

Or when earth the shakes, and "every island fled away", and the "mountains were not found", and "huge hailstones, about one hundred pounds each, came down from heaven upon men", and "the cities of the nations fell", you could say that it was caused by "C", which is either by reason of manmade CO2 accumulation, or not enough shots of Covid gene therapy sauce, etc. (Revelation 16:16-21), which will happen after all the nations are gathered together in "Har-Magedon", or you could move out of the cities. I guess time will tell. I think scientific testing would require us to play out the clock and see. In the meantime, those who believe in "demons", those living in cities of the nations, which already have signs of demon activity, should get out of town. Those who believe in their moral superiority based on intelligence and education, can stay put and see how things work out.

None of this addresses the circular nature of your argument. Additionally given that none of the things you've mentioned are a reality I'm quite comfortable trusting my intelligence and education.


Tcg

[brunumb]

Or when earth the shakes, and "every island fled away", and the "mountains were not found", and "huge hailstones, about one hundred pounds each, came down from heaven upon men", and "the cities of the nations fell", you could say that it was.......

.......the latest installment in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Good fiction never ages.

[2ndpillar2]

Since demons are unclean spirits, and cannot be seen, you simply have to look for secondary evidence.

What's even more important is to accept the existence of demons beforehand so that when one sees so called "secondary evidence" one can insist it is the result of the demons one has already accepted as existent.



Tcg

Or when earth the shakes, and "every island fled away", and the "mountains were not found", and "huge hailstones, about one hundred pounds each, came down from heaven upon men", and "the cities of the nations fell", you could say that it was caused by "C", which is either by reason of manmade CO2 accumulation, or not enough shots of Covid gene therapy sauce, etc. (Revelation 16:16-21), which will happen after all the nations are gathered together in "Har-Magedon", or you could move out of the cities. I guess time will tell. I think scientific testing would require us to play out the clock and see. In the meantime, those who believe in "demons", those living in cities of the nations, which already have signs of demon activity, should get out of town. Those who believe in their moral superiority based on intelligence and education, can stay put and see how things work out.

None of this addresses the circular nature of your argument. Additionally given that none of the things you've mentioned are a reality I'm quite comfortable trusting my intelligence and education.


Tcg

I don't know. The super volcano called Yellowstone, is on around a 640,000-year cycle, and that term period is ending. Southern California rift is on a 200-year cycle, and that period is coming to an end. The area of the strongest earthquake on record, off British Columbia, is acting up. There was no circular nature of my argument as you presented, a two-point circle, is nonexistent in mathematical/scientific circles. As for cities of the nations falling, well, just look at the Progressive cities of Seattle, Chicago, New York, Portland, Los Angelos, and San Francisco. People are fleeing already. As for 100-pound articles falling from the sky, well, the weight of individual payloads of a multiple head nuclear missile, is around 100 pound each. I think your "intelligence and education", can only get you into the circles of the elite deep state, whose end, in the form of the Progressive party, seems to be on a path to irrelevance.

Maybe you should look and see where "demon spirits" come from (book of Enoch)? If you think you are without a spirit or heart to house one, then by definition of Genesis, you are not even alive.

[2ndpillar2]

Or when earth the shakes, and "every island fled away", and the "mountains were not found", and "huge hailstones, about one hundred pounds each, came down from heaven upon men", and "the cities of the nations fell", you could say that it was.......

.......the latest installment in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Good fiction never ages.

I can imagine that you are quite familiar with comic books and their related enterprises. I did watch Star Wars, but it had as a main character, a mystic, by the name of Obi One Kenobi, who would represent one of those non reality spiritual aspects. Darth Vader, would represent the dark side, the side of the spirit of evil, the demon spirits. In real life, demon spirits take control of the leaders (church, state, etc.) (Revelation 16), and an inciteful person can tell by their actions, whether they are of the light or of darkness. If they are lawless (Matthew 13:41), such as those for defunding the law keepers, they would be of the darkness, and ruled by the devil and his demons. Without the "bad guys" (evil guys), your comics would probably not interest you. The law of this world is one of opposites, without evil, how would you know good, without sweet, how would you recognize bitter?

[William]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #158]

How can one test if demons exist in human form, as they just look like humans.

However, re the OPQ - one could try summoning a demon and see what happens.

Evocation


Apparently one can do this with angels too.

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #158]

How can one test if demons exist in human form, as they just look like humans.

However, re the OPQ - one could try summoning a demon and see what happens.

Evocation


Apparently one can do this with angels too.

Demons, unclean spirits, do not have bodies. They reside in persons or animals such as swine. Demons, unclean spirits, are the spirits of the "men of renown" (Genesis). Angels, do not die, it is the spirits of their offspring with daughters of men, who die, that become unclean spirits. Supposedly "Beezelbub", lord of the flies, is a ruling demon. You could try and summon him. I think the best image of him was Barrak giving a news conference, with one fly giving him hell. I think you can find Barrak on Martha's Vinyard. Just go up to his door and try and summon him. If you offer donuts and coffee to the secret service, they may put your summons through. Hopefully, for your sake, his wife doesn't show up.