When I lived in Bali, I couldn't help observing the pervasive evidence of belief in demons. And of course demons put in an appearance in the Bible, not to mention in the gargoyles of old cathedrals.
On the other hand, modern science would seem to categorically reject the existence of demons, without a clear reason why, unless it has to do with the axiomatic presuppositions of science's governing ideology of reductionist materialism.
Question: Do demons exist? What evidence is there, for or against?
--
Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Moderator: Moderators
-
- Scholar
- Posts: 354
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:49 pm
- Location: Seattle
- Been thanked: 6 times
Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #1"Love is a force in the universe." -- Interstellar
"God don't let me lose my nerve" -- "Put Your Lights On"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCBS5EtszYI
"Who shall save the human race?"
-- "Wild Goose Chase" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L45toPpEv0
"A piece is gonna fall on you..."
-- "All You Zombies" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63O_cAclG3A[/i]
"God don't let me lose my nerve" -- "Put Your Lights On"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCBS5EtszYI
"Who shall save the human race?"
-- "Wild Goose Chase" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L45toPpEv0
"A piece is gonna fall on you..."
-- "All You Zombies" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63O_cAclG3A[/i]
-
- Sage
- Posts: 881
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:47 am
- Been thanked: 18 times
Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #221I think the JoeyKnotHead dictionary was condemned by the woke UN for being raciest and without foundational propriety. Being that the UN is a compatible atheistic organization, I would think Joey should refrain from using his own dictionary. If there are "spirits", then as with men, there will be good and evil. We are living in a creation of a contrast between light and darkness, good and evil. Those who think all is good, may be in for a big surprise, when they find their car broke into, and their house burned down. As stated by Yeshua, while men may have eyes, they may not have eyes to see/perceive. (Matthew 13:13).JoeyKnothead wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:46 am I snipped the post just to fuss on definitions...
Another definition...2ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:41 pm demon definition: an evil spirit or devil, especially one thought to possess a person or act as a tormentor in hell.
Incapable of showing they speak truth: those who assert there's evil spirits and devils - and such can take "possession" of physical and / or animalian objects, only don't it beat all, they can't put em no truth to their claims.
Now we're stuck with another definition...
Liar: those who know danged well they can't put truth to their claims, but dangitall, they claim em anyway.
- JoeyKnothead
- Banned
- Posts: 20879
- Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
- Location: Here
- Has thanked: 4093 times
- Been thanked: 2572 times
Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #223What, specifically, is racist about the definition/s I present?2ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:03 amI think the JoeyKnotHead dictionary was condemned by the woke UN for being raciest and without foundational propriety.JoeyKnothead wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:46 am I snipped the post just to fuss on definitions...
Another definition...2ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:41 pm demon definition: an evil spirit or devil, especially one thought to possess a person or act as a tormentor in hell.
Incapable of showing they speak truth: those who assert there's evil spirits and devils - and such can take "possession" of physical and / or animalian objects, only don't it beat all, they can't put em no truth to their claims.
Now we're stuck with another definition...
Liar: those who know danged well they can't put truth to their claims, but dangitall, they claim em anyway.
Please link us all to the pertinent UN decision that supports your claim regarding my definition/s.
Or risk the observer thinking one or both of the definitions apply to your argument here.
This is otseng's site, not the UN's, begging them to come to your aid is likely to be as futile as sweeping the yard with a toothbrush.Being that the UN is a compatible atheistic organization, I would think Joey should refrain from using his own dictionary.
If you could show you speak truth regarding spirits, you wouldn't have to employ "if" when making claims about em.If there are "spirits", then as with men, there will be good and evil.
Meh.We are living in a creation of a contrast between light and darkness, good and evil.
Make a claim vague enough and it can slip through any attempt at determining if it has any basis in fact.
"May".Those who think all is good, may be in for a big surprise, when they find their car broke into, and their house burned down.
I may be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
Why do so many theists think hopes and wishes are facts and truth?
LomfpocAs stated by Yeshua, while men may have eyes, they may not have eyes to see/perceive. (Matthew 13:13).
You fail to offer one piece of support for the following...
1- Yeshua existed
2- Yeshua could utter a single word, much less a group of em
3- He uttered that mess of mumbo jumbo.
Or will the observer be left to think my definition/s most fitting?
Maybe you can get the UN help you find evidence for your claims.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin
-Punkinhead Martin
- William
- Savant
- Posts: 14187
- Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
- Location: Te Waipounamu
- Has thanked: 912 times
- Been thanked: 1644 times
- Contact:
Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #224[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #223]
"Always keep one eye open", Grand-pappy would tell us. Devils a tricky complexity.
I keep a demon-frier primed and close to the chest when it comes to tricky things comin' at me out of the shadows I cast through the light that I throw......metaphorically speaking, of course.
We are living in a creation of a contrast between light and darkness, good and evil.
It might be that a demon is whispering false notions into the mind that sees things through the lens of good and evil...we just don't know right?Meh.
"Always keep one eye open", Grand-pappy would tell us. Devils a tricky complexity.
I keep a demon-frier primed and close to the chest when it comes to tricky things comin' at me out of the shadows I cast through the light that I throw......metaphorically speaking, of course.
-
- Sage
- Posts: 881
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:47 am
- Been thanked: 18 times
Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #225You would have to define "artist". His "art" is listing for $500,000 a pop. Art in today's world is a way to launder money. On the other hand, some might consider it better than the Mona Lisa. It is colorful and doesn't stare at you.
-
- Sage
- Posts: 881
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:47 am
- Been thanked: 18 times
Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #226One must first define "good" and or "evil". For some, there is no such thing as evil, the devil, or wickedness. Does God set the standard? Does man set the standard? If man sets the standard, there is no need for Satan/devil. Man can attempt to set the rules, and if he fails, he can always blame God, or the Republicans, or at least blame Trump. Regardless, man still gets his car broken into, and his house is burnt down.William wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:00 pm [Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #223]
We are living in a creation of a contrast between light and darkness, good and evil.It might be that a demon is whispering false notions into the mind that sees things through the lens of good and evil...we just don't know right?Meh.
"Always keep one eye open", Grand-pappy would tell us. Devils a tricky complexity.
I keep a demon-frier primed and close to the chest when it comes to tricky things comin' at me out of the shadows I cast through the light that I throw......metaphorically speaking, of course.
- DrNoGods
- Prodigy
- Posts: 2716
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:18 pm
- Location: Nevada
- Has thanked: 593 times
- Been thanked: 1642 times
Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #227[Replying to mgb in post #200]
Scientific use of the word theory.1: an idea or set of ideas that is intended to explain facts or events
a widely accepted scientific theory
Einstein's theory of relativity
Layman's use of the word theory, as 2ndpillar2 used in post 188 that I responded to.2: an idea that is suggested or presented as possibly true but that is not known or proven to be true
Her method is based on the theory that all children want to learn.
There are a number of different theories about the cause of the disease.
Theorem is a mathematical term. A scientific theory has enough supporting evidence that for all practical purposes it is true. But "proven" true and "fact" are generally not used to describe a scientific theory (ie. you usually don't see the phrase "scientific fact" used, even for something like the heliocentric model of our solar system even though that is about close to fact as anything can be). Post 188 described a theory as an "unsubstantiated hunch", which is clearly wrong in the science world.When a theory is proved to be true (especially in mathematics) it becomes a theorem.
In human affairs the sources of success are ever to be found in the fountains of quick resolve and swift stroke; and it seems to be a law, inflexible and inexorable, that he who will not risk cannot win.
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain
- Tcg
- Savant
- Posts: 8495
- Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
- Location: Third Stone
- Has thanked: 2147 times
- Been thanked: 2295 times
Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #228I'm not sure exactly what is being asserted here. One definition for compatible is "capable of existing together in harmony." If you are suggesting that the U.N. and atheism are able to exist in harmony, then this is a very good thing. Just as the U.N. and theism being able to exist in harmony is a very good thing. If, however, you are claiming that the U.N. is an atheistic organization, then I'd need to see some verifiable evidence to accept that claim.2ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:03 am
Being that the UN is a compatible atheistic organization,
Of course, I'm not sure what the U.N. has to do with the ability or lack thereof to test for the existence of demons. Perhaps further explanation will clarify.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- Tcg
- Savant
- Posts: 8495
- Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
- Location: Third Stone
- Has thanked: 2147 times
- Been thanked: 2295 times
Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #229What is manifest is the total lack of verifiable evidence to support this claim. Heck, there isn't any attempt to support this claim other than a blind assertion.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
-
- Guru
- Posts: 1669
- Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:21 pm
- Location: Europe
- Has thanked: 10 times
- Been thanked: 21 times
Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #230I disagree. The existence of spiritual reality is the best explanation we have for the world. It is the world view that is most congruent with the facts we observe. Materialism fall way short because it cannot explain ontological reality, except by way of materialist dogma and materialistic articles of faith.