Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

[John Human]

When I lived in Bali, I couldn't help observing the pervasive evidence of belief in demons. And of course demons put in an appearance in the Bible, not to mention in the gargoyles of old cathedrals.

On the other hand, modern science would seem to categorically reject the existence of demons, without a clear reason why, unless it has to do with the axiomatic presuppositions of science's governing ideology of reductionist materialism.

Question: Do demons exist? What evidence is there, for or against?

--

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 240:

The German, Klaus Schwab is the Founder and Executive Chairman of the World Economic Forum, the International Organization for Public-Private Cooperation…

So, we have a University of Fribourg PhD, Harvard University MPA on one hand…

And Russell Brand on the other.

And we're to sort out which of em's the best one to comment on World / Global economics.

in the realm of Hitler's National Socialist party.

So, however vague "realm" is…

We have a PhD, MPA in the "realm' of the National Socialist Party.

And a dude in the "realm" of a website that considers covid a hoax.

And we're to determine which of these folks're the best one to speak on World / Global economic issues.

He [Schwab] is the mastermind behind the World Economic Forum that organizes the well-known Davos Summit.

The Davos Summit is the informal name of the annual four-day conference held by The World Economic Forum in Davos-Klosters, Switzerland. Business Insider

So, we have a guy who's the "mastermind" of an annual economic conference / summit.

And Russel Brand, who has a video on a website that declares covid a hoax.

And we're to determine which one of em might be best at speaking on World / Global issues.

Their partners are China, Bill Gates, big banks, Google, Facebook, vaccine providers, etc.

And the folks who attend that World / Global conference summit are, hold onto to your hats - from around the World / Globe.

And Russell Brand, who has a video on a website that declares covid a hoax.

And we're to determine who, either PhD Schwab, or video guy Russell Brand, of the covid is a hoax website, is the best one to speak on World / Global economic matters.


And that, as is so typical with 2ndpillar2's claims, there's not the first bit of data presented by 2ndpillar2 that confirms his own claims, thus…

1- There's spirits
2- There's demons
3- They lack a proper bathing regimen
4- There's a devil
5- The existence of 1 & 2 above is played out in the actions of the elites (leaders)

I remind folks of my previously provided definitions…

Incapable of showing they speak truth: those who assert there's evil spirits and devils - and such can take "possession" of physical and / or animalian objects, only don't it beat all, they can't put em no truth to their claims.

Liar[\b]: those who know danged well they can't put truth to their claims, but dangitall, they claim em anyway.

[William]

Spiritual reality is an oxymoron which, at best, describes nothing more than a fantasy world for those with vivid imaginations to escape into.

My own particular view has been met with accusation from non-theist and Christian alike.
There seem to be 3 positions.

Because of my particular position, I am;
1: Under demonic influence.
2: Maybe under demonic influence or maybe suffering delusions.
3: Suffering delusions.

Re your comment on vivid imagination, I think I qualify. I have a sub-forum dedicated to allowing imagination to have its place in the scheme of things and it also includes roll-playing - creating ones own characters, interacting in imagined environments et al.

I view our current reality situation as being a creation of an imaginative mind - and perhaps even as something made that way for the specific purpose of escapism, with the additional escape hatch of death installed into its program so that it doesn't become an eternal thing - one moves on into the next phase, taking from this phase, whatever it is one has picked up as possibly useful to that end.

My personal favorite:
4: It is neither demonic influence or delusion. It is the natural outcome of bringing as many pieces of the puzzle together and boldly moving forward towards that inevitable hatch...

My vivid imagination is going to come in real handy {I suspect] once I finally pass through that portal...but I do not expect to be escaping anything Rather I expect to be facing something new in which to explore and learn from...maybe even now and again, get a fright from even...although I think that this present reality simulation is more for that purpose....

[related to fear-stuff]

[2ndpillar2]

From Post 240:

The German, Klaus Schwab is the Founder and Executive Chairman of the World Economic Forum, the International Organization for Public-Private Cooperation…

So, we have a University of Fribourg PhD, Harvard University MPA on one hand…

And Russell Brand on the other.

And we're to sort out which of em's the best one to comment on World / Global economics.

in the realm of Hitler's National Socialist party.

So, however vague "realm" is…

We have a PhD, MPA in the "realm' of the National Socialist Party.

And a dude in the "realm" of a website that considers covid a hoax.

And we're to determine which of these folks're the best one to speak on World / Global economic issues.

He [Schwab] is the mastermind behind the World Economic Forum that organizes the well-known Davos Summit.

The Davos Summit is the informal name of the annual four-day conference held by The World Economic Forum in Davos-Klosters, Switzerland. Business Insider

So, we have a guy who's the "mastermind" of an annual economic conference / summit.

And Russel Brand, who has a video on a website that declares covid a hoax.

And we're to determine which one of em might be best at speaking on World / Global issues.

Their partners are China, Bill Gates, big banks, Google, Facebook, vaccine providers, etc.

And the folks who attend that World / Global conference summit are, hold onto to your hats - from around the World / Globe.

And Russell Brand, who has a video on a website that declares covid a hoax.

And we're to determine who, either PhD Schwab, or video guy Russell Brand, of the covid is a hoax website, is the best one to speak on World / Global economic matters.


And that, as is so typical with 2ndpillar2's claims, there's not the first bit of data presented by 2ndpillar2 that confirms his own claims, thus…

1- There's spirits
2- There's demons
3- They lack a proper bathing regimen
4- There's a devil
5- The existence of 1 & 2 above is played out in the actions of the elites (leaders)

I remind folks of my previously provided definitions…

Incapable of showing they speak truth: those who assert there's evil spirits and devils - and such can take "possession" of physical and / or animalian objects, only don't it beat all, they can't put em no truth to their claims.

Liar[\b]: those who know danged well they can't put truth to their claims, but dangitall, they claim em anyway.

You kind of overlook that Bill Gates funds the Global Economic Forum as well as apparently owns the patent to the coronavirus, as well as Fauci funding the Wuhan research center. The government directives are not only non-constitutional, but they are also mostly nonscientific, and are counterproductive. The Global Economic Forum is a combination of government, big tech, Academia, big Banks, industry, all presently using the Coronavirus and Global warming to cause the destruction (Marxist BLM rant of burn it down) of the present capitalistic system, in order to bring about a New Reset. Here is a link to the future according to GEF. https://humansarefree.com/2020/01/bill- ... break.html Number one on their list is that you will own nothing and be happy. The "elites" will own everything, and you will rent. Billy boy, who is one of the largest farm owners in the US, wants you to eat no meat, and eat his manufactured soy products. Eating soy will produce testosterone deficient, more pliable males. They would prefer you eat insects as some media advise you to add locust to your pie crust. As for demon spirits, that would be the guiding influence, other than power and creed, and will end in destruction (Revelation 16). Bill Gates predicted the coronavirus outbreak, as well as internet hacking, months before that happened. Billy has more money than he could ever spend, but was willing to pay, and hang around with a New York pedophile, Weinstein, to see about getting him a Nobel Prize. I think your gods, Gates, and Kraus, are not ones you should look up to. Bill Gates would probably be happy to produce the soylent green of George Orwell's 1984, which is a processed food made from the dead humans if it suited his purpose. I am not sure how Orwell got his dates so wrong.

[Swami]

unless it has to do with the axiomatic presuppositions of science's governing ideology of reductionist materialism.

That is a good way of saying that Western science is based on faith.

[Tcg]

unless it has to do with the axiomatic presuppositions of science's governing ideology of reductionist materialism.

That is a good way of saying that Western science is based on faith.

It's a good way to present an argument absent any verifiable evidence. It's not the only way to do so, but it is one.


Tcg

[Tcg]

As for demon spirits, that would be the guiding influence, other than power and creed, and will end in destruction (Revelation 16).

Given that you've yet to provide a means to test for the existence of demons, your assertion that they "would be the guiding influence", there is no reason to accept this claim. The repeated reference to Revelation 16 in a sub-forum where the Bible is not considered authoritative doesn't help your case.

What we find time and time again is that the answer to the O.P; "Do demons exist? Can that be tested?" is no, it can't be tested.


Tcg

[JoeyKnothead]

You kind of overlook that Bill Gates funds the Global Economic Forum as well as apparently owns the patent to the coronavirus, as well as Fauci funding the Wuhan research center. The government directives are not only non-constitutional, but they are also mostly nonscientific, and are counterproductive. The Global Economic Forum is a combination of government, big tech, Academia, big Banks, industry, all presently using the Coronavirus and Global warming to cause the destruction (Marxist BLM rant of burn it down) of the present capitalistic system, in order to bring about a New Reset. Here is a link to the future according to GEF. https://humansarefree.com/2020/01/bill- ... break.html Number one on their list is that you will own nothing and be happy. The "elites" will own everything, and you will rent. Billy boy, who is one of the largest farm owners in the US, wants you to eat no meat, and eat his manufactured soy products. Eating soy will produce testosterone deficient, more pliable males. They would prefer you eat insects as some media advise you to add locust to your pie crust. As for demon spirits, that would be the guiding influence, other than power and creed, and will end in destruction (Revelation 16). Bill Gates predicted the coronavirus outbreak, as well as internet hacking, months before that happened. Billy has more money than he could ever spend, but was willing to pay, and hang around with a New York pedophile, Weinstein, to see about getting him a Nobel Prize. I think your gods, Gates, and Kraus, are not ones you should look up to. Bill Gates would probably be happy to produce the soylent green of George Orwell's 1984, which is a processed food made from the dead humans if it suited his purpose. I am not sure how Orwell got his dates so wrong.

I'm sorry folks, as amusing as it can be, I just can't keep up with a horse named Gish.

[2ndpillar2]

As for demon spirits, that would be the guiding influence, other than power and creed, and will end in destruction (Revelation 16).

Given that you've yet to provide a means to test for the existence of demons, your assertion that they "would be the guiding influence", there is no reason to accept this claim. The repeated reference to Revelation 16 in a sub-forum where the Bible is not considered authoritative doesn't help your case.

What we find time and time again is that the answer to the O.P; "Do demons exist? Can that be tested?" is no, it can't be tested.

Tcg

The leading question of the OP is "do demons exist". That question was answered yes. As for can that be tested, well, that would be a subjective view, whereas the actions of men, betray un underlying depravity, which would not be the result of just adding dust with water and sun light. The very nature of soil itself, would be a redefining energy into matter, which would require laws, such as E=Mc2, and the law of for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. To have light, you first must have darkness. The godless, are not in fact godless, for they have elevated their status to being their own gods. That would lead to depression and high rates of suicide, which is a measurable fact. You have the right to hold onto your own god, and say that there are no other gods, but in fact, you have one god, which is the god of your own creation. Good luck with that, you will need all the luck you can muster. As for you being your own "authority", well, how is that working out?

[William]

unless it has to do with the axiomatic presuppositions of science's governing ideology of reductionist materialism.

That is a good way of saying that Western science is based on faith.

I think it is more the case that Western science is interpreted through the filter of materialism.
This is because Western Culture decided to investigate physical reality as a purely mechanistic entity devoid of any sense of self awareness thus, purpose.
Add to that the queer fact of biological life which, although itself - Mindful - emerges from a mindless process and [specifical humans] developing purpose through that sense of self and that ability to 'make it so' through use of the form re function.

Due to that emergent quality, humans are left wondering about their position in the scheme of things and decide that it must have been a mindful thing with a purpose which begat not only life on Earth, but the whole universe as well...

Western scientists interpret the science through the filter of materialism because it is customary to do so.
Scientists from cultures based in thinking through spiritism interpret the same evidence, differently.

Neither interpretation has been proven to be the truth because the Hard Problem of Consciousness is still on the table - thus so is Spiritism...still there alongside Emergencism. "God is Dead. God Remains Dead. And We Have Killed Him." has not positively been established,although there are many who think it is the case, and for those ones, yes - it is equally a matter of faith, as "God Exists".

The illusion may be that these two positions are extremes of each other in that only one or the other can be the truth.

A third option is that they are the same thing seen differently.

[Tcg]

As for demon spirits, that would be the guiding influence, other than power and creed, and will end in destruction (Revelation 16).

Given that you've yet to provide a means to test for the existence of demons, your assertion that they "would be the guiding influence", there is no reason to accept this claim. The repeated reference to Revelation 16 in a sub-forum where the Bible is not considered authoritative doesn't help your case.

What we find time and time again is that the answer to the O.P; "Do demons exist? Can that be tested?" is no, it can't be tested.

Tcg

The leading question of the OP is "do demons exist". That question was answered yes. As for can that be tested, well, that would be a subjective view, whereas the actions of men, betray un underlying depravity, which would not be the result of just adding dust with water and sun light.

Yes, is an easy answer to give absent any supporting evidence. The second question is "Can that be tested?" Once again, you've provided no means to test for the existence of demons.

The very nature of soil itself, would be a redefining energy into matter, which would require laws, such as E=Mc2, and the law of for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. To have light, you first must have darkness. The godless, are not in fact godless, for they have elevated their status to being their own gods. That would lead to depression and high rates of suicide, which is a measurable fact. You have the right to hold onto your own god, and say that there are no other gods, but in fact, you have one god, which is the god of your own creation. Good luck with that, you will need all the luck you can muster. As for you being your own "authority", well, how is that working out?

That's a whole bunch of not evidence with a huge amount of assigning to me that which I don't agree with. Again, not even an attempt to provide verifiable evidence to support the existence of demons.


Tcg