How likely are we to find extraterrestrial life?

[otseng]

Many NASA scientists think we're on the verge of finding alien life.

Ellen Stofan, NASA's former chief scientist, said in 2015 that she believes we'll get "strong indications of life beyond Earth in the next decade and definitive evidence in the next 10 to 20 years."

Many astrophysicists and astronomers are convinced that it's not a matter of if we'll find life — it's when.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nasa-pl ... de-2019-11

Questions for debate:
- How likely are we to find extraterrestrial life?
- What empirical evidence is there that any extraterrestrial life exists?
- What are the implications if extraterrestrial life exists or do not exist?

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 60 by William]

As I have pointed out in the past, the planet itself appears to be intelligent, since it is the planet which creates the life-forms.

That's a huge leap. Just because life appears on a planet does not mean that the planet is in some way intelligent and caused it.

That is at least a strong indication of agency, so it becomes a matter of perspective in relation to whether a planet can be intelligent and self aware.

What evidence do you have that supports your claim that there is a strong indication of agency? Earth is mostly a giant ball of metal and rock formed from what was essentially space debris. Star dust. Absolutely no reason to imbue it with any magical properties, least of all consciousness.

[mgb]

So we're left with the options of (yet unidentified) mechanisms for origin of life that do not require intelligence, or purely speculative ideas that some intelligence exists that is responsible.

I don't think they are purely speculative. The universe seems to be intelligently designed and it is reasonable to assume that things really are as they seem. In fact the universe seems to be designed by someone much smarter than us.

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to post 62 by mgb]

The universe seems to be intelligently designed and it is reasonable to assume that things really are as they seem. In fact the universe seems to be designed by someone much smarter than us.

Three instances of the word "seem(s)", and I would not argue that it may seem to some people that the universe was intelligently designed. But that has no bearing on whether or not it was.

My main objection to this idea is that no "someone much smarter than us" has ever been demonstrated to exist in any form, and a large number of them have been proposed. The existence of gods or similar intelligent beings is speculative for this very reason. If some such creature were to make itself known then it would make sense to attribute things to it ... even fantastic things like creation and organization of the universe. But as long as they keep hiding their existence from us it is hard to point to them as being responsible for anything at all. Then we can accept that things are indeed as they seem ... described by the laws of physics with no need to invoke the actions of supernatural beings.

[mgb]

My main objection to this idea is that no "someone much smarter than us" has ever been demonstrated to exist in any form,

For many people God is empirically real.

But as long as they keep hiding their existence from us it is hard to point to them as being responsible for anything at all.

You seem to want to keep the question of extra terrestrial life within reductive, scientific arguments. But these are not the only arguments that can be put forward. All of the philosophical/religious/spiritual arguments that you constantly see on these threads can also be put forward by way of answering the OP.

[Clownboat]

For many people God is empirically real.

I would like to test this claim.

em·pir·i·cal
adjective
based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.

ver·i·fi·a·ble
adjective
able to be checked or demonstrated to be true, accurate, or justified.

What observations or experiences can I verify that would show that a God is real?

[mgb]

For many people God is empirically real.

I would like to test this claim.

em·pir·i·cal
adjective
based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.

ver·i·fi·a·ble
adjective
able to be checked or demonstrated to be true, accurate, or justified.

What observations or experiences can I verify that would show that a God is real?

The word has shades of meaning:

1
: originating in or based on observation or experience
empirical data
2
: relying on experience or observation alone often without due regard for system and theory
an empirical basis for the theory
3
: capable of being verified or disproved by observation or experiment
empirical laws

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/empirical

[Clownboat]

For many people God is empirically real.

I would like to test this claim.

em·pir·i·cal
adjective
based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.

ver·i·fi·a·ble
adjective
able to be checked or demonstrated to be true, accurate, or justified.

What observations or experiences can I verify that would show that a God is real?

The word has shades of meaning:

1
: originating in or based on observation or experience
empirical data
2
: relying on experience or observation alone often without due regard for system and theory
an empirical basis for the theory
3
: capable of being verified or disproved by observation or experiment
empirical laws

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/empirical

Is this you saying that there is no observations or experiences that I can verify that would show that a god is real? I didn't expect there to be, thus why I questioned your use of empirical.

It seems you are using empirical much like how someone that believes in bigfoot might consider that they have empirical evidence that justifies their belief in bigfoot. As long as the empirical evidence for the gods is the same as what we have for bigfoot, then I see no issue with your claim.

I experienced and observed all sorts of things raised in a pentecostal church. Some pretty strange. None that point to a god being real though, thus my question and wondering about how you are using the term.

I'll assume for now you are using it in a way such as this:
For many people, Bigfoot is empirically real.

[William]

[Replying to post 67 by Clownboat]

I experienced and observed all sorts of things raised in a pentecostal church. Some pretty strange. None that point to a god being real though, thus my question and wondering about how you are using the term.

I have experienced a conscious encounter with an entity which I can comfortably describe as 'extraterrestrial'. That alone cannot signify 'god being real'. It cannot even signify that extraterrestrials [as per OP subject] are real either, because I do not know that they even come from this universe.

However, given I have been offered no empirical evidence other universes exist, I have to conclude the entity I had the encounter with, was from this universe...extraterrestrial as in 'alien' 'from somewhere out in space'.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 67 by Clownboat]

I experienced and observed all sorts of things raised in a pentecostal church. Some pretty strange. None that point to a god being real though, thus my question and wondering about how you are using the term.

I have experienced a conscious encounter with an entity which I can comfortably describe as 'extraterrestrial'. That alone cannot signify 'god being real'. It cannot even signify that extraterrestrials [as per OP subject] are real either, because I do not know that they even come from this universe.

However, given I have been offered no empirical evidence other universes exist, I have to conclude the entity I had the encounter with, was from this universe...extraterrestrial as in 'alien' 'from somewhere out in space'.

Super!
Please show that you speak the truth and actually had an encounter with an extraterrestrial from this universe.

Perhaps details might make this claim a bit more reasonable?

I have had many encounters with aliens, and they have told me that they never contact any other human besides myself. Therefore, how could you have encountered one yourself?

You don't find my claim rediculous by chance do you? Would you perhaps appreciate it if I tried to show that my claim was true? Or does, "I met with extraterrestrials" really cut it for you and such a claim deserves to be believed?

I do not know that aliens exist and contact us. I do know that humans will pretend to have information that escapes the rest of us and that feels empowering and good though. Take, 'knowing that the earth is flat' as one example. Perhaps 'knowing about extraterrestrials' is another example?

[William]

[Replying to post 67 by Clownboat]

I experienced and observed all sorts of things raised in a pentecostal church. Some pretty strange. None that point to a god being real though, thus my question and wondering about how you are using the term.

I have experienced a conscious encounter with an entity which I can comfortably describe as 'extraterrestrial'. That alone cannot signify 'god being real'. It cannot even signify that extraterrestrials [as per OP subject] are real either, because I do not know that they even come from this universe.

However, given I have been offered no empirical evidence other universes exist, I have to conclude the entity I had the encounter with, was from this universe...extraterrestrial as in 'alien' 'from somewhere out in space'.

Super!
Please show that you speak the truth and actually had an encounter with an extraterrestrial from this universe.

I mentioned it mainly to point out how personal experience is relative to the person...I have no problem in saying so, even that I am unable to show anyone that it happened.

Perhaps details might make this claim a bit more reasonable?

Why do you think that? I didn't share the little I have, in order to claim it was reasonable or not.

I have had many encounters with aliens, and they have told me that they never contact any other human besides myself. Therefore, how could you have encountered one yourself?

Why do you think I am the one you should be asking? If you have a problem with the information you were given, in relation to the information I have given, how is that something I have to answer to?

You don't find my claim ridiculous by chance do you?

I find it more of an example of projection. Apart from that, I am not here to make judgments regarding such things.

Would you perhaps appreciate it if I tried to show that my claim was true? Or does, "I met with extraterrestrials" really cut it for you and such a claim deserves to be believed?

It is not important to me or why I chose to share that I had an ET experience. It was more to point that having had such an experience, I think it more likely we will find ET life, although I also pointed out in my post, that we need not assume such would be from some planet far away...

I do not know that aliens exist and contact us. I do know that humans will pretend to have information that escapes the rest of us and that feels empowering and good though. Take, 'knowing that the earth is flat' as one example. Perhaps 'knowing about extraterrestrials' is another example?

Are you asking me to help you to decide? I do not care if you think I am making up a story or whatever reasons you produce for my doing so. I did not share it for that purpose.