Psychedelics and God?

[jgh7]

Many people claim to go on spiritual journeys when they do psychedelics. Certain psychedelics such as DMT are considered to be extremely spiritual by many. Shamans in South America use DMT derived from the iowaska plant to go on their journeys. Other psychedilics such as Ketamine are actually used by doctors to treat depression and other illnesses.


Questions:
Do you think people can come in to contact with God or spirits by doing psychedelics? Or do they come in to contact with demons? Or is it simply hallucinations of the mind and nothing more? Do you consider psychedelics bad or immoral (both for religious and/or non-religious reasons)? Would you take the spiritual experience of a person who did psychedelics any less or more seriously than the spiritual experience of a religious person?

(I put this in the science section in case anyone wanted to go deep into chemical reactions to explain why psychedelics do what they do)

[Plumbus Grumbo]

[Replying to Plumbus Grumbo]


"Psychedelics provide information about the self and the gods. Reality is not part of the equation. (Sciencly, psychedelics work by binding certain agonists to relevant receptors in the brain)."

I do not quite grasp that 'reality is not part of the equation'.
If it 'provides infromation about 'the self and the gods' doesn't that fall into the real?

The gods cannot be confirmed as any more real than any other aspect of the "soul." Whether the gods are real or no has no relevance to their existence and their mission.

[shnarkle]

Many people claim to go on spiritual journeys when they do psychedelics. Certain psychedelics such as DMT are considered to be extremely spiritual by many. Shamans in South America use DMT derived from the iowaska plant to go on their journeys. Other psychedilics such as Ketamine are actually used by doctors to treat depression and other illnesses.


Questions:
Do you think people can come in to contact with God or spirits by doing psychedelics? Or do they come in to contact with demons? Or is it simply hallucinations of the mind and nothing more? Do you consider psychedelics bad or immoral (both for religious and/or non-religious reasons)? Would you take the spiritual experience of a person who did psychedelics any less or more seriously than the spiritual experience of a religious person?

(I put this in the science section in case anyone wanted to go deep into chemical reactions to explain why psychedelics do what they do)

Psychedelics are not moral or immoral in and of themselves. They can be used properly and they can be used improperly. In some cases God or the fates, or however you choose to look at it; sees fit to present some with these experiences.

These chemicals all have receptors in the human brain so it's like asking if it's okay or moral to plug an extension cord into an outlet in your house. There are certain factors that need to be considered first. What are you going to be plugging into the cord. If you're plugging in a hair dryer to throw into the bathtub to kill someone, then maybe it isn't a great idea. If you're plugging a cord into an already overloaded outlet then you might blow a fuse.

I took some of the absolute best LSD ever produced in this country when I was six years old. It wasn't under what anyone would consider laboratory conditions yet it was destined to happen. I knew what I was doing, and I am certain that what I took was as good if not better than government grade LSD 25. The reason I know this is that I did a considerable amount of research later in life so I had plenty to compare it to.

In the bible, sorcery is condemned. In the new testament, the word used is "pharmakia" which is where we get our word pharmacy. So, using drugs to expand one's mind is playing with fire for believers. For the rest, you're going straight to hell. Just kidding, but you might encounter some demons even if everyone else just thinks your hallucinating.

I've seen people who were stone cold sober get completely freaked out just being around people who were frying on acid. It's like a "contact high" except they hallucinate like mad. These drugs aren't necessary to hallucinate, see demons, go on spiritual walks etc., but they do make it easier. The easiest path isn't always the best path though, and more importantly I don't recommend doing any of these drugs especially if one has no experience or understanding of what they're doing. If one is ready to face their demons, then go for it. Otherwise, get ready to lose your mind.

What these drugs do is sort of like removing a filter around you reptilian brain stem. A filter that is necessary to filter out all unnecessary or unimportant sensory stimuli. Things like the fly on the wall, while your watching the super bowl, or the lady in red when the truck is about to hit you, or the fact that you can now run the table in the pool hall and everyone now believes that you're a shark so they're going to kick your tail outa there.

These drugs can literally give you super powers you never knew you had. Again, I'm not suggesting that these drugs be used to find out what your super powers are, just pointing out that they can allow you to do some pretty amazing things. Hustling pool sharks is only one of many. I used to accept a game and then suggest flipping to see which arm we use to shoot. The pool pockets looked to be about as big as basketball hoops, and every shot seemed to be no more than a few inches. Dart boards were also fun. The dart board appeared to be no more than a couple feet away, and the bulls eye was again as big as a basketball hoop. Here again, it wasn't any fun unless we were arbitrarily picking different arms to throw with. When the bulls eye is that big it really doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter what you're doing, you're in the zone. I was a 12 handicap, but on acid I would shoot par or a few under. On my best day of waterskiing, I could make it around half the pylons. On acid it was like gliding over the water and never touching it; all the pylons went by with feet to spare. Driving was a different story. Technically, it's attempted suicide, and for good reason. It isn't that it is difficult to drive, it's just that all of a sudden you're driving on a hot wheels track with loops and banked curves that seem to defy gravity.

Here's just one of many "spiritual" stories that come to mind. Late one night a few of us decided to drop some blotto. A few hours later after having a lively and somewhat fascinating discussion on eternal damnation (we were all brought up Catholic) someone suggested: "Hey let's go to the cross". The cross was a prominent feature of one of the foothills behind the campus. A 15 to 20 foot tall mahogany cross about a mile or so walk from our dormitories. As we were walking along under the light of a gibbous moon, we all simultaneously saw someone ahead of us walking in what appeared to be some sort of poncho. As the distance closed between us, it became clear that he was wearing an off white cloth pull over garment that reached down just below his ankles; the type of thing you might see a Mennonite woman wearing. We all stopped chatting and passed him in silence, our mouths all agape at what appeared to be the spitting image of Christ himself. He just smiled and when he was about 40 to 50 feet away, he turned back towards us as we all stared dumbfounded and gestured for us to follow him. He then turned and walked on. One of my fellow acid heads turned and whispered in an almost screeching sound, "Was that Jesus"? Someone said something like, "I dunno, go ask him". Then someone said, "Yep, it's Jesus come down from the cross".

So did we see Jesus? Given that we were all steeped in Catholic doctrine from the age of 5 and given that we had just dropped some pretty good acid, and given that our heads were full of fiery brimstone, and given that someone suggested: "Hey let's walk to the cross". Chances are that all these factors and themes began to play with our minds. After all, the cross is where one meets Jesus. We seemed to meet him after the fact and didn't seem all that interested in following him. Looking back, I can see why we might not want to follow him TO the cross, but haven't got a clue why we wouldn't want to follow him away from the cross. That being if it was Jesus. If it was just some hallucination or some weirdo dressed like Jesus then nobody wants to step out in that direction either. These are some of the questions one ponders on acid sometimes.