Microbial life discovered on Saturn's moon Enceladus!

[DeMotts]

Now that I've got your attention... No, we have not discovered microbial life on Enceladus. Sorry, cheap trick.

However! Recent discoveries and observation of cryovolcanoes venting water vapor, molecular hydrogen, and other volatiles into space as well as the detection of escaping heat indicate that Enceladus possesses a large sub-surface ocean of liquid water and is geologically active. Scientists speculate that it is one of the most likely places in the solar system to search for life.

Ok, so imagine if you will that we've constructed a probe and launched it towards Saturn, and it is designed to fly through the ejecta from Enceladus and collect samples and thoroughly scan them for signs of life. And amazingly enough, the probe snags a sample that contains a microbe. It is conclusively proven that the microbe originated from the warm liquid water ocean under the icy surface of Enceladus.

Here's the question:

Theists - What would be your reaction? Does this change your view on the origin of life? Does this change your opinion on the validity of abiogenesis? How does this inform your world view?

Non-theists - What implications does this have for how you see things? Is this, or something like it, simply "expected"? Do you feel like this would strike some sort of a blow against religious world views? Or would you predict denial, conspiracy accusations, and maintenance of the status quo in regards to religious acceptance of scientific explanations for both terrestrial and extra-terrestrial life's origins?

[benchwarmer]

[Replying to post 1 by DeMotts]

For me personally, this would change nothing in regards to my beliefs. It would be an amazing discovery that perhaps helps us understand life on our own planet.

For those theists who are set on God creating all life, they would simply move the goal posts and claim God in His infinite wisdom also created whatever life is on whatever other planet/moon/asteroid we happen to find it on.

[Derrrpp]

Cheap trick OP! Im a fallfish for sciencedaily ...So you get

Nope. Nada. Pope says no-no so there's no extracurricular activity here.. Life blasted to moon by asteriod impacts ejecta during K-T et.al catastrophes. Miracle solved!

[DeMotts]

[Replying to Derrrpp]

Are you saying that your explanation would be that life on Enceladus originated on Earth and was blasted out there on some debris from asteroid impacts during an earlier period? Or are you role-playing a theist and imagining what they would say?

[Divine Insight]

Non-theists - What implications does this have for how you see things? Is this, or something like it, simply "expected"?

It wouldn't "surprise" me at all from a scientific perspective. However, it would be an extremely exciting discovery none-the-less. There would be so many questions. Is this DNA based like like on Earth? If so, did it begin independently, or was it indeed somehow related to life on earth as has already been suggested. Either case would be interesting to know. Of course if it was a totally alien type of biology that would be all the more thrilling from a scientific perspective.

Far more importantly is that such a discovery would have an huge beneficial influence on our current earthly society and political life. It would be a "shot in the arm" for science to be sure. Not in the sense of confirming that science is correct, but simply in the sense that it would bring a lot more focus on the need to get out there and investigate these things. So science would just gain a lot of attention and popularity, especially by the younger generation.

Do you feel like this would strike some sort of a blow against religious world views? Or would you predict denial, conspiracy accusations, and maintenance of the status quo in regards to religious acceptance of scientific explanations for both terrestrial and extra-terrestrial life's origins?

Well, it wouldn't be a blow to religions like Buddhism. There is nothing in Buddhism that requires that life can exist throughout the entire universe in all different forms and stages. So for Buddhism it would have no religious significance.

It would be a further blow against the Abrahamic religions. But apparently that wouldn't matter much. People who support the Abrahamic religions don't seem to care that they have already been disproved umpteen million times already, so one more piece of evidence against them is hardly going to make much difference.

[Derrrpp]

[Replying to post 4 by DeMotts]
Yes asteriods see nemesis theory- no wait that is comet impacts. we find bits of moon and mars here.
Im saying that Im a jerk that sees the difficulty in setting up a true case of scientifically recognizing a separate genesis of life- Anything intrasolar systemic is going to be highly scrutinized and argued to death- unless it is so clearly unrelated. Since the pope declared that evolution and Big Bang are real theories then creating the disparity between a 1st and 2nd genesis of life has to go thru their channels which will most likely overwrite any intrasolar life as being part of Genesis1 but unmentioned in some way or interpreted in another.

[Bust Nak]

Non-theists - What implications does this have for how you see things? Is this, or something like it, simply "expected"?

It is expected, but no less exciting. Indeed I would be disappointed if we don't find anything.

Do you feel like this would strike some sort of a blow against religious world views?

First we have to established if what we discover is enough to let us rule out abiogenesis as an unique event. i.e. the life is so radically different to us that implies it arose separately from life on Earth. (As opposed to life starting once then spreading to various planets and moons.) Also bearing in mind that contamination is a real possibility.

Or would you predict denial, conspiracy accusations, and maintenance of the status quo in regards to religious acceptance of scientific explanations for both terrestrial and extra-terrestrial life's origins?

That much is always to be expected, we still have people who believe flat Earth, let alone YEC, based on their religious view.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 1 by DeMotts]

Non-theists - What implications does this have for how you see things? Is this, or something like it, simply "expected"?

Yup. Expected.

Do you feel like this would strike some sort of a blow against religious world views?

Nope. Religious world views have an amazing ability to survive that which should kill them off.

Or would you predict denial, conspiracy accusations, and maintenance of the status quo in regards to religious acceptance of scientific explanations for both terrestrial and extra-terrestrial life's origins?

That and a reinterpretation of sacred texts, with claims that knowledge of life on the moons of Saturn was there all along. After all, look at how often Islamic preachers say that the Big Bang is mentioned in the Quran...conveniently this only started AFTER the Big Bang had been predicted and confirmed by scientists.

[JP Cusick]

Microbial life discovered on Saturn's moon Enceladus!

Theists - What would be your reaction? Does this change your view on the origin of life? Does this change your opinion on the validity of abiogenesis? How does this inform your world view?

When we found out the biology of where babies came from then that did not stop it from still being a miracle.

God said He created the heavens and the earth, and science proved that true calling the creation as the BIG BANG.

According to the Bible mankind (male and female) were created from the dust of the ground, so finding life on Saturn's moon created from that moon's dust would be a verification and not a contradiction.

There is even places in the Bible which describe a space ship (flaming chariot), and Jesus actually said that we come from this world but He did not, as said here = John 8:23 " And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. " KJV

If we take that literally it is a strange thing to be said in the 1st century C.E.

God comes to us from the heavens (not Heaven but heavens) and so finding life in outer space might shock the orthodox believers but it does not shake the scriptures.

[Kenisaw]

Microbial life discovered on Saturn's moon Enceladus!

Theists - What would be your reaction? Does this change your view on the origin of life? Does this change your opinion on the validity of abiogenesis? How does this inform your world view?

When we found out the biology of where babies came from then that did not stop it from still being a miracle.

Sure it did. Maybe it still feels that way to people, and it is certainly an amazing thing, but it is most definitely NOT miraculous.

God said He created the heavens and the earth, and science proved that true calling the creation as the BIG BANG.

God also said he made plants before light. Why skip over the stuff you can't align with current scientific understanding?

According to the Bible mankind (male and female) were created from the dust of the ground, so finding life on Saturn's moon created from that moon's dust would be a verification and not a contradiction.

Fun fact for you: We are mostly air. It's true. All animal life is dependent on plant life, directly or indirectly. Where do plants get most of their biomass? The air. That's where the carbon comes from, along with other elements. Which means that animals, including humans, get most of their mass from the air. So we aren't actually made from the dust, that's an ancient myth.

There is even places in the Bible which describe a space ship (flaming chariot), and Jesus actually said that we come from this world but He did not, as said here = John 8:23 " And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. " KJV

Not being completely honest, are you. In 2 Kings 6 it says that "and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha." It doesn't say anything about them flying. Of course that's the same chapter that mentions a floating ax head ("and the iron did swim"). Then, as cultists tend to do, you switch to a completely unrelated book written hundreds and hundreds of years later (John) and try to connect two unrelated sentences together as if they are supposed to support each other. Forgive me if I can't buy into that.

If we take that literally it is a strange thing to be said in the 1st century C.E.

It's a strange thing to claim man came after animals in Gen 1, and before animals in Gen 2, but then saying strange things is not a strange occurrence in the Bible.

God comes to us from the heavens (not Heaven but heavens) and so finding life in outer space might shock the orthodox believers but it does not shake the scriptures.

Maybe they will find plants there that exist without light. That wouldn't shake the scripture either...