Science without religion is lame,

[McCulloch]

What I said and what I meant was attached to this saying: "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

So if we take that saying literally as I did, then without religion one is handicapped as "lame" and without science those are handicapped by being "blind".

Does science benefit from the inclusion of religion? Which religion? How? Be specific. Do the benefits outweigh the difficulties?

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to post 7 by JP Cusick]

In this case it does not matter whether the Bible accounts are accurate or true, because all that matters is that Einstein put the pieces together to then formulate the theory of relativity.

How do you get from the quote you keep repeating ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind") to the idea that Einstein used anything written in the bible to formulate his theory of relativity, or inspire it, or anything of the sort? He was a physicist who far more likely got his inspiration from thinking about the physical world and the laws that govern it, rather than reading the bible and connecting tales of impossible human life spans with the speed of light and its invariance with respect to inertial frames.

You're (not repeating my own pet peeve mistake in post 5) making up a connection to try and claim that religion somehow inspired Einstein in his development of the theory of relativity. But there are no "pieces" in the bible that could possibly have been put together and used for this. The speed of light was not even thought about in biblical times, and no attempts to measure it were made until the 1600s. Even if Einstein had read the bible from cover to cover searching for inspiration to support his initial ideas on relativity, he would have come up completely empty.

[Justin108]

I firmly believe that Einstein himself used the Bible to get his own basic ideas and really he is saying just that in that quote.

The theory of relativity comes straight out of the old Testament as it tells of people living hundreds of years, then the Bible tells that God shortened the human life span down to 120 years, and it tells that a day for God is 1000 years, and the old method of measuring time was the Moon cycle of 19 years, so all of this told Einstein that time was relative and he expanded from there.

This is his own principle:
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

It puzzled me that after Einstein died they cut out his brain to see why he was so brilliant, and instead of having a larger brain it turned out to be a bit smaller than normal, and so in their logic perhaps a smaller brain could be a smarter brain = such fools.

No one took his words literally that science without religion is lame.

Religion without science being blind needs no comment.

Just because you personally see a resemblance between Einstein's theory of relativity in a select few Bible verses is not enough to conclude that Einstein got his theory from the Bible. Did Georges Lemaître get his Big Bang theory from the Quran?

“Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, then We separated them, and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?� (Quran 21:30)

This verse is about as similar to the Big Bang theory as your verses are to Einstein's theory of relativity. Are we going to conclude that Lemaître got the idea from the Quran, despite the fact that he was a Catholic priest?

[JP Cusick]

I'm just curious JP. The non believers on the forum have found your understanding of science to be essentially, well, shall we say a good deal less than comprehensive.

I like mine to be less than comprehensive because comprehensive means total brainwashing and I do not want to completely join those others in their brainwashing.

By your own admission your religious beliefs are unorthodox at best, and actually heretical at worst.

That is very true.

And I appreciate the acknowledgment thereof.

Exactly what choir is it that you believe you are preaching to?

I preach to individuals and there is no choir for me.

My view is that each person as an individual is a son or daughter of God and thereby each individual must be treated as royalty - even if they might be downtrodden royalty.

Each person is a Prince or Princess as a child to the King of Kings.

The various "choirs" (which is an appropriate metaphor) are really a hindrance and an obstacle to me because each choir degrades the individual as into a group which stifles their individuality.

I dislike trying to communicate with others as a Theist or an Atheist or Christian or other religion because they stick to their Church doctrines or to the authorized beliefs or even sticking to science as all of those are just singing from their own choirs and not as individual persons.

On this forum here it is just you and I discussing with others watching, but you demand your self as an Atheist based on science so that keeps you locked away from me reaching out to you just as an individual person because you sing for that choir.

[JP Cusick]

then the Bible tells that God shortened the human life span down to 120 years,

But does nothing to stop Noah living to 500+ years AFTER this declaration...

There are fanatical people as like myself who have studied the scriptures down to minute details and so we find answers for everything.

I do not know if Einstein was fanatical in the scriptures but other people in Judaism are and Einstein might have just learned about relativity from a Sabbath class?

The Bible tells in lots of detail if one really seeks it out that the life span of humans (per the Bible) was changed down to 120 years, Genesis 6:3, but God did not make it as an instantaneous change but as a slow gradual reduction, and we know that because the Bible records the ages on a decline, as at first 900 years then later 700 then 500 then 300 until at last Joseph being 110 years at his death, Genesis 50:22, and that was the end or indeed the beginning of length or limitation of age.

The Bible even explains why God made it a slow and gradual change as it tells a peculiar passage in Genesis 11:28 where the son died of old age before his father died at 205 years old, and this was a big deal in those times that the father would out live his own son, and that is why it was a slow decline in age until it reached the 120 limit.

It is fine to say it never really happened, or they used other means of calculating years or age, but the Bible does explain itself and there is no reason why some fanatical Rabbi might not have told such things to Einstein along with other peculiar references to time being relative.

[JP Cusick]

I firmly believe that Einstein himself used the Bible to get his own basic ideas and really he is saying just that in that quote.

Would this be the same Einstein who on January 3, 1954 sent the following reply, "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends…. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions."

Well first is that I do not support Einstein himself, and I find Einstein himself to be a spineless jerk who was distinctly immoral and debased, but I still do like that one sentence he made = "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Just because he was correct in one sentence does not make him correct in other things, and in fact Einstein was wrong about many other things.

So my understanding is that when Einstein originally spoke about "religion" or about "God" then Einstein really meant his own version of God and of religion, because Einstein saw God in science and he saw science in religion, but Einstein's own view did not match up with Christianity nor with Judaism and so he found himself trapped by religious people whom he did not want any association, and so at last Einstein denounced religion, and in this I myself agree with him, and in an ugly ironic sort of way then even Adolf Hitler would have agreed with that quote too.

It is wrong to view Einstein as a genius or as a Saint or a messenger because he was just another guy trying to live in this evil world.

I firmly believe that Einstein himself used the Bible to get his own basic ideas and really he is saying just that in that quote.

I would really like to know why your belief in Einstein's reliance on the Bible is described as a firm belief.

That is because I myself became a religious fanatic long before I ever studied Einstein or the Theory of Relativity, and so I was extremely interested in the Bible and the question of time is very important for us fanatics to study about Bible prophesy and Bible history and other time related questions. As such I learned a lot about time from the Bible, and one example is that the true Sabbath is every seventh (7th) day and the Bible declares that each day for God is 1000 years, and that is why many people view the earth as just 6000 years old because there was a Sabbath before the 6000 years and another Sabbath coming now in the 7th millennium as being the thousand years of Christ, see Revelation 20:5-7.

Based on this I put my own twist to the interpretation that 6000 years ago was not the creation because it was just the end of that last past millennial Sabbath and that is a really BIG distinction for those of us who dig deep into such things.

As such when I first read about Einstein and his theory of relativity then I saw immediately that Einstein had figured out his own twist to the question of time as told in the Bible. Einstein discovered an explanation as to how God's time is vastly different from human time.

This concept actually explains why people landing on the Moon appear to be going in slow motion, and it is because here on earth our time has been accelerated - our lives move and end more quickly here on earth. On the Moon it really is slower motion.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 15 by JP Cusick]

As such when I first read about Einstein and his theory of relativity then I saw immediately that Einstein had figured out his own twist to the question of time as told in the Bible. Einstein discovered an explanation as to how God's time is vastly different from human time.

No he didn't do that. As I explained before, (and which you seem to have ignored), his theory of relativity shows that there is no absolute frame of reference, especially for time. So fitting God in here is just bogus.

This concept actually explains why people landing on the Moon appear to be going in slow motion, and it is because here on earth our time has been accelerated - our lives move and end more quickly here on earth. On the Moon it really is slower motion.

Again, you do not understand relativity. There is no slow motion on the moon (apart from the effects of lower gravity). If I were to move to a moon colony, I would expect to find myself living and experiencing about the same amount of years as I would here on Earth.

[H.sapiens]

This concept actually explains why people landing on the Moon appear to be going in slow motion, and it is because here on earth our time has been accelerated - our lives move and end more quickly here on earth. On the Moon it really is slower motion.

The appearance of "slow motion" on the moon is an artifact of the lower gravity, not some relativistic quirk of time.

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to post 15 by JP Cusick]

... long before I ever studied Einstein or the Theory of Relativity

You say you studied the Theory of Relativity, then make a statement like this:

This concept actually explains why people landing on the Moon appear to be going in slow motion, and it is because here on earth our time has been accelerated - our lives move and end more quickly here on earth. On the Moon it really is slower motion.

which proves beyond any doubt that you have no understanding of it at all. Maybe you are confused with relativistic time dilation, but this would not apply to "people landing on the moon" and observing each other's motions, and certainly not in any way to the ages of imaginary biblical characters, or the idea that a god day is 1000 human days. I'm afraid your studies of the ToR were not very informing.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 4 by JP Cusick]


"No one took his words literally that science without religion is lame. "

Didn't Tesla say that science could do a lot more in much shorter time
if it embraced the Creator.

[McCulloch]

[Replying to post 15 by JP Cusick]

I firmly believe that Einstein himself used the Bible to get his own basic ideas and really he is saying just that in that quote.

Would this be the same Einstein who on January 3, 1954 sent the following reply, "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends…. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions."

I would really like to know why your belief in Einstein's reliance on the Bible is described as a firm belief.

That is because I myself became a religious fanatic long before I ever studied Einstein or the Theory of Relativity, and so I was extremely interested in the Bible and the question of time is very important for us fanatics to study about Bible prophesy and Bible history and other time related questions. […]

As such when I first read about Einstein and his theory of relativity then I saw immediately that Einstein had figured out his own twist to the question of time as told in the Bible. Einstein discovered an explanation as to how God's time is vastly different from human time.

In other words, JP Cusick sees something a little bit like relativity in the Bible, therefore in spite of the fact that he considered it to be the product of human weaknesses and primitive legends, Einstein must have got his ideas from the Bible. On this topic, I'll believe Einstein over Cusick.

This concept actually explains why people landing on the Moon appear to be going in slow motion, and it is because here on earth our time has been accelerated - our lives move and end more quickly here on earth. On the Moon it really is slower motion.

Thank you for demonstrating that you do not understand relativity.