The eclipse, complexity, design, and God

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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Justin108
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The eclipse, complexity, design, and God

Post #1

Post by Justin108 »

I have noticed several posts lately taking advantage of the eclipse to argue in favor of a creator. The argument usually goes that the eclipse is so precise that it had to have been designed. Curiously, the people making these arguments happen to all be Christians rather than deists, pantheists, etc.

Suppose for argument sake the eclipse did prove a creator. Why should we then assume that the Biblical god is that creator? Why not possibly consider a deistic god? Or perhaps an entirely different god? How do you take the leap from "the universe had a creator" to "and that creator was YHWH"?

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Post #2

Post by evilsorcerer1 »

I think in a way there is a creator but no one probably likes him. The Bible is garbage, unless your trying to pinpoint one of the historical documents where all lies can be traced to (that's all books by the way). First, if Jesus even did exist and rose from the dead, where did he go? Venus is 25 million miles away. And I've studied the Bible, I know a lot of what it says. Bible and Babel are very similar words. And blasphemy is saying God isn't the only spirit and I don't even think it's possible to be born into this world and come in contact with another human and not be defiled. I think you had to be born through a certain bloodline and it didn't matter because the opposite would be true that if a parent would be defiled by a baby. So a creator would have known that and have allowed any of his chosen to live before too many contaminants would defile them.

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Re: The eclipse, complexity, design, and God

Post #3

Post by Dimmesdale »

Justin108 wrote: I have noticed several posts lately taking advantage of the eclipse to argue in favor of a creator. The argument usually goes that the eclipse is so precise that it had to have been designed. Curiously, the people making these arguments happen to all be Christians rather than deists, pantheists, etc.

Suppose for argument sake the eclipse did prove a creator. Why should we then assume that the Biblical god is that creator? Why not possibly consider a deistic god? Or perhaps an entirely different god? How do you take the leap from "the universe had a creator" to "and that creator was YHWH"?
You don't even have to posit a "Creator", as in a personal agent with a will to do things. You could say it happened due to eternal laws that existed prior to creation but that necessitated it. Sort of like the number one implying all the other numbers.

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Re: The eclipse, complexity, design, and God

Post #4

Post by Kenisaw »

Justin108 wrote: I have noticed several posts lately taking advantage of the eclipse to argue in favor of a creator. The argument usually goes that the eclipse is so precise that it had to have been designed. Curiously, the people making these arguments happen to all be Christians rather than deists, pantheists, etc.

Suppose for argument sake the eclipse did prove a creator. Why should we then assume that the Biblical god is that creator? Why not possibly consider a deistic god? Or perhaps an entirely different god? How do you take the leap from "the universe had a creator" to "and that creator was YHWH"?
I don't think you can logically conclude that any one particular god being would be the creator in question. Obviously people biased toward a certain dogma will assume that the god creature attached to that dogma is the creator being proven, but that would not be the rational conclusion to reach given the fact that we can merely surmise that come kind of creator exists, without details about that creator.

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Re: The eclipse, complexity, design, and God

Post #5

Post by H.sapiens »

Justin108 wrote: I have noticed several posts lately taking advantage of the eclipse to argue in favor of a creator. The argument usually goes that the eclipse is so precise that it had to have been designed. Curiously, the people making these arguments happen to all be Christians rather than deists, pantheists, etc.

Suppose for argument sake the eclipse did prove a creator. Why should we then assume that the Biblical god is that creator? Why not possibly consider a deistic god? Or perhaps an entirely different god? How do you take the leap from "the universe had a creator" to "and that creator was YHWH"?
If it was, then the creator got it wrong by about 5 degrees. Had the moon's orbit been within the plane of the ecliptic it could have demonstrated the creator's glory every 28 days rather than the difficult to predict situation that ascertains.

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Re: The eclipse, complexity, design, and God

Post #6

Post by FWI »

[Replying to post 1 by Justin108]

Mainly, because about 4 billion people (today) believe so. This surely can't be by accident. We should also consider the hundreds of millions that have believed, before these modern times.

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Re: The eclipse, complexity, design, and God

Post #7

Post by steveb1 »

Justin108 wrote: I have noticed several posts lately taking advantage of the eclipse to argue in favor of a creator. The argument usually goes that the eclipse is so precise that it had to have been designed. Curiously, the people making these arguments happen to all be Christians rather than deists, pantheists, etc.

Suppose for argument sake the eclipse did prove a creator. Why should we then assume that the Biblical god is that creator? Why not possibly consider a deistic god? Or perhaps an entirely different god? How do you take the leap from "the universe had a creator" to "and that creator was YHWH"?
I believe that God is real but is not a creator, intervener or judge. So for me nothing in the material universe proves or even implies the existence of a creator. An eclipse is just one more expression of the universe-in-general as nothing but an amalgam of mindless cycles of force. Nothing more, nothing less.
There is no creator deity behind the universe, or inside the universe.

However, to answer the OP's question, "Suppose for argument sake the eclipse did prove a creator. Why should we then assume that the Biblical god is that creator?", I can only say - of course not. Many religions have many differing kinds of creator deities and the Hebrew Yahweh has no particular specialness that would make him "the One, True God".

Moreover, just as "God" does not need to be a creator, so too, "creator" does not need to be a deity. A creator could be some ancient machinery whose "assignment" is to produce worlds, or some interdimensional Hacker or Simulator - not a god at all. And certainly not Yahweh.

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Post #8

Post by Joseph JHill »

We should not think of god by considering any religions. God is the supreme power that controls the world. He is the ultimate power that had created the universe. Don't judge him based on any religion.

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Post #9

Post by benchwarmer »

Joseph JHill wrote: We should not think of god by considering any religions. God is the supreme power that controls the world. He is the ultimate power that had created the universe. Don't judge him based on any religion.
If you remove religions from the equation (wise choice in my opinion), then how have you come to know about any 'god' and what it may or may not have done? Personal opinion? Reminder this is the Science and Religion subforum and we we like some evidence of claims, preferably testable evidence. Without evidence, your post amounts to nothing but preaching.

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Post #10

Post by Kenisaw »

Joseph JHill wrote: We should not think of god by considering any religions. God is the supreme power that controls the world. He is the ultimate power that had created the universe. Don't judge him based on any religion.
Then the supreme power is evil, because it controls the world and every evil thing that is done is obviously under it's control. Have fun worshipping that being, I'll pass....

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