UFO investigations:

[JP Cusick]

Does anyone believe in UFO's?

Not just "unidentified" but a craft from out space.

The Bible tells of a Prophet going up into heaven in a chariot of fire in a whirlwind, 2 Kings 2:11-12, and that sounds like a rocket ship.

There was a real report of a UFO crashing in 1947 near Roswell and the gov says it was a test surveillance balloon, and not everyone believes that.

Image HERE.

[JP Cusick]

I understand the idea of the human form as being a biological machine.

Machines are devices created for specific purposes.

That is where I got my concept based on the word "created" as in God created people then people are indeed created machines.

A Preacher once told me that the most basic thing we know about God is that God creates things - that seems obvious after hearing it but it really is a different view of God as a creator who creates things.

It aligns with the theory of evolution, in that everything is in the process of being created - evolving.

Even for modern science of today the ultimate machine would be to create a machine exactly like a person (males and females), which could talk and move like a human and do the work and functions of humans, and it needs to be given a brain and intellect, and so ultimately humans will seek to create a new life form in our own image.

I have my own theory that humans are the ultimate invention, and with that being the case then if the UFO's / the aliens do not see us as the prize of the universe - then they must be regarded as less intelligent regardless of any technical advances they might have.

[William]

[Replying to post 21 by JP Cusick]

That is where I got my concept based on the word "created" as in God created people then people are indeed created machines.

That is where we part theological company. I see forms as machines which are used by consciousness (spirit if you will) and to identify as being the machine is as strange and remiss as astronauts identifying themselves as the space-suit.

I have my own theory that humans are the ultimate invention, and with that being the case then if the UFO's / the aliens do not see us as the prize of the universe - then they must be regarded as less intelligent regardless of any technical advances they might have.

I think that such a theory is more aligned with vainglorious thinking than with anything truthful.

[JP Cusick]

That is where we part theological company. I see forms as machines which are used by consciousness (spirit if you will) and to identify as being the machine is as strange and remiss as astronauts identifying themselves as the space-suit.

Actually that happens all the time.

As like the name Astronaut means = a person going to the stars (astron).

And Cosmonaut means = a person going to the universe (cosmos).

Thereby that identify is of a person as in a space ship or in the space suit.

So too would be a spirit or consciousness as in a human body.

When a person dies then the consciousness goes away while the lifeless body remains - that is very similar to cutting off the power supply for a machine to turn it off.

To properly look for UFO's then we would have to look for different forms of life and different forms of machines and different kinds of transportation, and for different kinds of bodies, and etc etc etc.

Since our own human body is the best there is (best evolved) in the physical realm, then we can expect that any extraterrestrial would be physically inferior, or else a non physical form of life.

[William]

[Replying to post 23 by JP Cusick]

Actually that happens all the time.

As like the name Astronaut means = a person going to the stars (astron).

And Cosmonaut means = a person going to the universe (cosmos).

Thereby that identify is of a person as in a space ship or in the space suit.

So too would be a spirit or consciousness as in a human body.

You misunderstand me.

What I was saying is that self identity is not about what position you are in, weather it is in a ship, or in a human body in a ship in a universe. In that sense it is accurate to say "I am consciousness (spirit) having an experience of being human." and understand ones self in this way.

[William]

[Replying to post 23 by JP Cusick]

Actually that happens all the time.

As like the name Astronaut means = a person going to the stars (astron).

And Cosmonaut means = a person going to the universe (cosmos).

Thereby that identify is of a person as in a space ship or in the space suit.

So too would be a spirit or consciousness as in a human body.

You misunderstand me.

What I was saying is that self identity is not about what position you are in, weather it is in a ship, or in a human body in a ship in a universe. In that sense it is accurate to say "I am consciousness (spirit) having an experience of being human." and understand ones self in this way.

I was saying that the different ways in which we see ourselves is where we part theological company.

[Furrowed Brow]

Does anyone believe in UFO's?

Clearly many people do. I am more agnostic about aliens visiting earth.

There was a real report of a UFO crashing in 1947 near Roswell and the gov says it was a test surveillance balloon, and not everyone believes that.

And that is the point we are faced with - having to discern the truth and who is lying, who is a fantasist, who is honest and evaluating what scant physical evidence there is. Crop circles for example...aliens?....or drunk art students with rope, planks and bottles of cider... or something else.

I admit to being curious about UFOs but remain sceptical to any specific claim. The problem is aliens make for a great story and spur the imagination. I'd suggest "aliens" attracts too many fraudsters and fantasists, along with folk with dubious analytic and observational abilities - Richard C. Hoagland and Giorgio A. Tsoukalos to name but two who if not exactly fraudsters have made careers out of pushing spurious analysis. I'd add the late Lloyd Pye to that list.

Additionally, it is too easy to invoke "aliens did it" as the answer when more mundane answers are available, or even when there is a real mystery "aliens did it" is a place holder that replaces the older religious answer "God did it".

I am torn. It is very easy and in most part more cogent to see interest in aliens and claims surrounding aliens as a sociological question. How do cultural beliefs arise and linger? And it is often nothing to do with evidence, data and reality. In this sense I equate alien belief with religion and astrology. People will believe what they enjoy believing, fit the evidence to suit and carry on regardless. On the other hand the size of the universe along with the number of planets already discovered and the likelihood humans as yet have not worked out a perfect understanding of physics and the optimum principles of space travel - the idea of alien visitation is intriguing.

However there are some claims I find easy to dismiss. Foremost of these are the ancient alien theories that claim aliens built or helped build the pyramids or anything else. I am also highly sceptical of alien abduction stories. Cattle mutilation seems to be a real phenomena but it is a stretch to blame aliens - here the answer "aliens did it" possibly glosses over a real mystery whilst also misdirecting attention from things like insurance fraud, people with psychological problems and strange fetishes. I suspect the vast majority of alien stories that are not out right fraud and fantasy or misidentification are cover stories for government and industrial black projects.

Between here and the truth is a wall of fraud, fantasy, poor analysis and black project cover up. Given that fog it is near impossible to reach a positive conclusion regarding an alien origin of UFOs...other than well some of it could be true.

[JP Cusick]

I admit to being curious about UFOs but remain sceptical to any specific claim. The problem is aliens make for a great story and spur the imagination.

Indeed - and just by believing in UFO's as space aliens makes the world a much more interesting place.

I equate alien belief with religion and astrology. People will believe what they enjoy believing, fit the evidence to suit and carry on regardless. On the other hand the size of the universe along with the number of planets already discovered and the likelihood humans as yet have not worked out a perfect understanding of physics and the optimum principles of space travel - the idea of alien visitation is intriguing.

It is all great fun and adventure.

It is intriguing because it is possible.

Between here and the truth is a wall of fraud, fantasy, poor analysis and project cover up. Given that fog it is near impossible to reach a positive conclusion regarding an alien origin of UFOs...other than well some of it could be true.

Yes - it could be true.

When we dismiss what could be - then our view becomes unhealthy and unsound.

[JP Cusick]

Indeed - and just by believing in UFO's as space aliens makes the world a much more interesting place.

Another significant report of a UFO = Yahoo News ~ Mystery Aircraft Confirmed Flying Over Oregon

" The aircraft was described as a white object flying north between 35,000 and 40,000 feet. At one point in the air traffic controller audio clip, one pilot says the mystery bird is 12 to 15 miles away, and distances from other aircraft ranged from four to 20 miles. Another pilot, observing the aircraft, estimates an airspeed of 370 knots, or 425 miles an hour on the ground, also noting he is not getting a TCAS transponder signal. "

Whatever it really was can never be confirmed.