Evolution RIP

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EarthScienceguy
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Evolution RIP

Post #1

Post by EarthScienceguy »

From Zumdahl Chemistry Sixth edition

Gibbs free energy equation in Chemistry indicates whether a chemical reaction will occur spontaneously or not. It is derived out of the second law of thermodynamics and takes the form.

dG = dH - TdS

dG = the change in Gibbs free energy
dH = the change in enthalpy the flow of energy reaction.
T = Temperature
dS = Change in entropy Sfinal state - Sinitial state

For evolution to occur the dS is always going to be negative because the
final state will always have a lower entropy then the initial state.

dH of a dipeptide from amino acids = 5-8 kcal/mole ,(Hutchens, Handbook
of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology.

dh for a macromolecule in a living system = 16.4 cal/gm (Morowitz,
Energy flow in Biology.


Zumdauhl Chemistry sixth edition

When dS is negative and dH is positive the Process is not spontaneous at
any temperature. The reverse process is spontaneous at all temperatures.

The implications are that evolution could not have happen now or in the past. genes could not have been added to the cytoplasm of the cell along with producing any gene's in the first.

Production of information or complexity by any chemical process using a polymer of amino acids is impossible according to the second law of thermodynamics. If any proteins were formed by chance they would immediately break apart.

Evolution Cannot Happen.



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Re: Tsrot

Post #291

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to post 290 by Clownboat]
Christians give their lives? You sure you are not talking about Muslims?
Muslims give their lives up for the assurance of getting into heaven.

There is no need for Christians to do this they already have assurance of their salvation. Or to use an analogy their "ticket has already been punched." They have are already going to heaven.


Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quotes. "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
This is not even true do I need to go through the litany of highly intelligent people who believe in God. In all sciences except for biology, Christians are in the same proportions as the general population.

That does not seem to reflect reality. Other religions tried to stomp out Christianity to strengthen their own religious claims and power. See the Crusades. Why, because religion is useful to the rulers.
In correct, Look at Mao in China, Stalin and Lenin in the USSR, North Korea today. All have tried to stomp out Christianity and all have failed. And in those countries suicide rates have skyrocketed.

But as Christianity has increased in China the suicide rate has decreased.
When atheists are clearly answered and they run away because they have lost, then they claim they were never answered, are they liars?
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Re: Tsrot

Post #292

Post by Clownboat »

EarthScienceguy wrote: [Replying to post 290 by Clownboat]
Christians give their lives? You sure you are not talking about Muslims?
Muslims give their lives up...
Like I said. The 'why' doesn't change this.
There is no need for Christians to do this they already have assurance of their salvation.
They have faith in such a thing. Faith is needed in order to believe in false things incidently.
Belief in Big Foot and Lochness for example take faith. I could claim to have assurances of their existence, but I wouldn't be fooling you now would I?
Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quotes. "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
This is not even true do I need to go through the litany of highly intelligent people who believe in God.
Not sure how that would invalidate Seneca's thoughts on the matter.
As a fun note, Lucius Annaeus Seneca lived from 4 BC to 65 AD.
In all sciences except for biology, Christians are in the same proportions as the general population.

It would be strange for Christians to dominate biology, that is for sure.
That does not seem to reflect reality. Other religions tried to stomp out Christianity to strengthen their own religious claims and power. See the Crusades. Why, because religion is useful to the rulers.
In correct, Look at Mao in China, Stalin and Lenin in the USSR, North Korea today. All have tried to stomp out Christianity and all have failed. And in those countries suicide rates have skyrocketed.

Your claim was: "Many rulers tried to stomp out Christianity because Christians allegiance is to Christ and not a ruler."

I point you to the Crusades where just the opposite happened.
But as Christianity has increased in China the suicide rate has decreased.
Therefore....?
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: Evolution RIP

Post #293

Post by ATN »

[Replying to post 288 by EarthScienceguy]
Gibbs free energy equation can be used in chemical reactions, because all chemical reactions are closed systems.
I don't think all chemical reactions are closed systems, as some require heat or a flow of additional chemicals for the reactions to continue.
What other material is added in the reaction that changes the gene?
Today it is powerful by radiation from the sun and nutrition from other life.

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Re: Evolution RIP

Post #294

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to ATN]
I don't think all chemical reactions are closed systems, as some require heat or a flow of additional chemicals for the reactions to continue.
The definition of a closed system in a thermodynamic system is a system that can exchange energy outside the system but not matter. Since a chemical equation has to account for all mass that is reacting so that it obeys the law of conservation of mass in which chemical equations are based on. That would make them closed systems.



Today it is powerful by radiation from the sun and nutrition from other life.
Adding energy from radiation would raise the entropy, at least it does in every other system. Nutrition would add nothing to the reactions involved in changing DNA.
When atheists are clearly answered and they run away because they have lost, then they claim they were never answered, are they liars?
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Re: Evolution RIP

Post #295

Post by Kenisaw »

EarthScienceguy wrote: [Replying to ATN]
Today it is powerful by radiation from the sun and nutrition from other life.
Adding energy from radiation would raise the entropy, at least it does in every other system. Nutrition would add nothing to the reactions involved in changing DNA.
Solar radiation does increase the entropy, however not all the energy from the solar radiation is lost as waste. Instead, some of the energy is used to decrease the local entropy of something (in this case the leaf that the light hits). In other words, the rate of entropy does not increase maximally (it does not increase as much as it could if all the energy was lost as waste heat for example).

So the leaf is able to build structure because it can do work thanks to the solar energy. Those structures include molecules that we can use in our bodies. That stored energy is eaten by animals, including humans, which then use that energy to maintain or even decrease the entropy in their bodies for a time. So food does indeed lower the entropy of your body, which means you can increase structure in something like DNA.

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Re: Evolution RIP

Post #296

Post by ATN »

[Replying to post 294 by EarthScienceguy]

But our bodies ain't a closed system as we consuming food and relieve waste.
We use nutrition to replace cells and it's genetic content all the time.
And it doesn't matter that entropy increases, because the loss of energy is continually replaced. It's like heated water is giving out more heat than non-heated water. But if the heated water is continually heated, the temperature remain constant.

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Re: Evolution RIP

Post #297

Post by ATN »

[Replying to post 294 by EarthScienceguy]
The definition of a closed system in a thermodynamic system is a system that can exchange energy outside the system but not matter. Since a chemical equation has to account for all mass that is reacting so that it obeys the law of conservation of mass in which chemical equations are based on. That would make them closed systems.
No, because even when all mass is accounted for, mass can still be transported inn and out of the chemical prosess, that would be an open system.

We see this in organisms, and in extension the cell. Substances are transported inn and out of the cell all the time to enable the cell to do different functions, like replace other cells and its genetic content. We get useful and nutritious substances from our diet, and we dispose waste.
Nutrition would add nothing to the reactions involved in changing DNA


It's called nucleic and amino acids. And energy to drive the process in form of glucose.
Adding energy from radiation would raise the entropy, at least it does in every other system.
It doesn't matter that entropy increases, because the loss is continually replaced.
It's like heated water radiate more heat (it has higher entropy) than non-heated water. But the heated water is still warmer than the non-heated water (it contains more energy). In addition if the heated water is continually heated, the temperature remain constant. You argue basically that the water can't be heated because that would make it radiate more heat (it gets a higher entropy).

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