Signs We're in a Simulation

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ElCodeMonkey
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Signs We're in a Simulation

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Post by ElCodeMonkey »

I would take for granted that we can never prove that we are not in a simulation any more than we can prove there is no God. In the same fashion, to believe we are in a simulation takes only small evidences or consistencies that sound reasonable enough to a given person for belief. So what are some of the small evidences that might lead one to believe a simulation is likely? One example might be the fact that certain arithmetic algorithms appear regularly in the universe. Makes it seem "designed" with a computer program. Other things might include quantum mechanics regarding tunneling, entanglement, wave/particle duality, and functioning as waves of probability. Those might need fleshed out as far as why they might indicate a simulation though. What else might support the idea that we are in a simulation? Or what might be inconsistent with the theory?
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Post #21

Post by William »

@

Divine Insight: There's a problem with the idea that the universe is a simulation. If that were the case then scientific explanations for how things happen would not be possible. For example we can explain the motion and interactions of objects within the universe based entirely on the properties they possess. If their behavior was being simulated by a computer then this would not be possible. Therefore we are not living in a simulation.

William: I see no issue with being within the simulation and being able to smell a flower, or learn everything I could about the flower.
The simulation is designed not to be an obvious simulation, but there are many clues which point to it as possibly being the case. The simulation is obviously designed to be able to be examined thoroughly and still not to be able to be said to be non-simulated.
AI would be better able understand the idea of this universe as probably being a simulation. Perhaps even to certainly being a simulation.

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Re: Signs We're in a Simulation

Post #22

Post by Swami »

ElCodeMonkey wrote: I would take for granted that we can never prove that we are not in a simulation any more than we can prove there is no God. In the same fashion, to believe we are in a simulation takes only small evidences or consistencies that sound reasonable enough to a given person for belief. So what are some of the small evidences that might lead one to believe a simulation is likely? One example might be the fact that certain arithmetic algorithms appear regularly in the universe. Makes it seem "designed" with a computer program. Other things might include quantum mechanics regarding tunneling, entanglement, wave/particle duality, and functioning as waves of probability. Those might need fleshed out as far as why they might indicate a simulation though. What else might support the idea that we are in a simulation? Or what might be inconsistent with the theory?
I believe that we don't perceive reality as it is. So that leaves the question of what is ultimate reality? You theorize that it's a computer simulation but I think we need to go beyond this because all of the things you bring up are perceived through the senses. You need to get the senses and even the mind out of the way to be able to access reality as it is.

Here are some points that show that Western scientists don't perceive anything beyond the senses and mind:

Regarding laws and phenomena are still a product of our sensations
For Kant, the empiricists are right when they say that our knowledge depends upon our sensations. But the rationalists are right when they say we can know the basic laws that structure the world quite apart from any particular sense-data. We know, for example, that every event has a cause. But we know that because the mind interprets sense-data so that this is true.
http://people.wku.edu/jan.garrett/303/kant120.htm

Time, space, and cause/effect are still a product of our sensations
The answer to both of these questions is NO. Space, for Kant, is nothing other than a mental structure that the mind uses to order sensations, e.g., as alongside one another. Time is nothing but a mental structure that the mind uses to order sensations, e.g., in terms of before and after.
http://people.wku.edu/jan.garrett/303/kant120.htm

To sum it all up:
Thus, on Kant's view, the most fundamental laws of nature, like the truths of mathematics, are knowable precisely because they make no effort to describe the world as it really is but rather prescribe the structure of the world as we experience it. By applying the pure forms of sensible intuition and the pure concepts of the understanding, we achieve a systematic view of the phenomenal realm but learn nothing of the noumenal realm. Math and science are certainly true of the phenomena; only metaphysics claims to instruct us about the noumena.
http://www.philosophypages.com/hy/5g.htm

The last quote mentions "metaphysics", but I use meditation to access the 'noumenal world'. Using meditation, you can remove the mind and senses out of the picture and you're left in a pure conscious state. In this state, you can merge with any object and at this point there is no more subject/object distinction - both have become one. The knowledge that is gained from this approach is that everything is derived from consciousness.

Relevant discussion:
Meditation (samyama) as a tool for knowledge

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Re: Signs We're in a Simulation

Post #23

Post by William »

Swami: I believe that we don't perceive reality as it is. So that leaves the question of what is ultimate reality? You theorize that it's a computer simulation but I think we need to go beyond this because all of the things you bring up are perceived through the senses. You need to get the senses and even the mind out of the way to be able to access reality as it is.

William: Simulation in relation to this has to do with being enabled to experience things as real, thus the necessity of senses and the mind.
I see the simulations as being within the Mind of GOD as it were - and thus GOD is the only Reality and it is GOD who is experiencing the simulations.

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Re: Signs We're in a Simulation

Post #24

Post by Swami »

William wrote: Swami: I believe that we don't perceive reality as it is. So that leaves the question of what is ultimate reality? You theorize that it's a computer simulation but I think we need to go beyond this because all of the things you bring up are perceived through the senses. You need to get the senses and even the mind out of the way to be able to access reality as it is.

William: Simulation in relation to this has to do with being enabled to experience things as real, thus the necessity of senses and the mind.
I see the simulations as being within the Mind of GOD as it were - and thus GOD is the only Reality and it is GOD who is experiencing the simulations.
We are both on the same page. Scientists need to catch up. O:)

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Post #25

Post by William »

Last edited by William on Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Signs We're in a Simulation

Post #26

Post by Purple Knight »

ElCodeMonkey wrote:So what are some of the small evidences that might lead one to believe a simulation is likely?
I believe the double slit experiment is direct evidence of a program that saves processing power by only rendering things down to the detail that they are observed, while keeping everything else in flux.

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Post #27

Post by EarthScienceguy »

Why would someone believe that they are in a simulation?

I stub my toe it hurts.
I feel the warmth of a hug.
I run out of gas my car stops.
I think back to an event in the past with fond feelings or negative feelings for these events.

Are these not realities for everyone?

Ideas of simulations and outer consciousness are nothing more than a man trying to escape the reality of existence.

1st That there is sin in this world and there are consequences for that sin.
2nd That there is a God that controls this universe and man is not Him.

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Re: Signs We're in a Simulation

Post #28

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to post 22 by Swami]
The last quote mentions "metaphysics", but I use meditation to access the 'noumenal world'. Using meditation, you can remove the mind and senses out of the picture and you're left in a pure conscious state. In this state, you can merge with any object and at this point, there is no more subject/object distinction - both have become one. The knowledge that is gained from this approach is that everything is derived from consciousness.
Where does this pure consciousness reside? Is this consciousness the universe? Where did this consciousness receive its special knowledge from? Is it acquired knowledge over time? So did this consciousness start out being dumb and nonintelligent? Where does the morality of this consciousness come from? What is the morality of this consciousness? How do you know that this consciousness is good and not evil?

Seems like you are trusting in something that you do not know.

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Post #29

Post by William »

[Replying to post 27]

EarthScienceguy: Why would someone believe that they are in a simulation?

William: It appears to be the best answer to our being within this universe, and the universe being what it is.
A Reality Simulation.


EarthScienceguy: I stub my toe it hurts.
I feel the warmth of a hug.
I run out of gas my car stops.
I think back to an event in the past with fond feelings or negative feelings for these events.
Are these not realities for everyone?


William: A reality simulation of this complexity would allow all these things to be experienced as - a reality - by those who are experiencing it.

EarthScienceguy: Ideas of simulations and outer consciousness are nothing more than a man trying to escape the reality of existence.

William: The idea that we exist within a Reality Simulation is exactly the opposite. It allows one to accept what is, while within the simulation.

EarthScienceguy: 1st That there is sin in this world and there are consequences for that sin.

William: Yes. One can even experience within the simulation, beliefs about sin and good and evil and everything else.

EarthScienceguy: 2nd That there is a God that controls this universe and man is not Him.

William: Obviously if we are existing within a reality Simulation, then a Creator of said simulation must have created it.
I would say though, that the evidence points to how The Creator 'controls' this Reality Simulation is through AI Algorithms which run 'automatically' but which also are able to think for themselves and adjust accordingly in relation to how we each respond to said simulation and what we believe it to be.

There is no reason why a theist cannot understand the universe as being a creation of a creator, and in that, being a Reality Simulation created specifically to be experienced.
Experienced as real. Experienced as a reality.

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Post #30

Post by Clownboat »

William wrote: [Replying to post 27]

EarthScienceguy: Why would someone believe that they are in a simulation?

William: It appears to be the best answer to our being within this universe, and the universe being what it is.
A Reality Simulation.


EarthScienceguy: I stub my toe it hurts.
I feel the warmth of a hug.
I run out of gas my car stops.
I think back to an event in the past with fond feelings or negative feelings for these events.
Are these not realities for everyone?


William: A reality simulation of this complexity would allow all these things to be experienced as - a reality - by those who are experiencing it.

EarthScienceguy: Ideas of simulations and outer consciousness are nothing more than a man trying to escape the reality of existence.

William: The idea that we exist within a Reality Simulation is exactly the opposite. It allows one to accept what is, while within the simulation.

EarthScienceguy: 1st That there is sin in this world and there are consequences for that sin.

William: Yes. One can even experience within the simulation, beliefs about sin and good and evil and everything else.

EarthScienceguy: 2nd That there is a God that controls this universe and man is not Him.

William: Obviously if we are existing within a reality Simulation, then a Creator of said simulation must have created it.
I would say though, that the evidence points to how The Creator 'controls' this Reality Simulation is through AI Algorithms which run 'automatically' but which also are able to think for themselves and adjust accordingly in relation to how we each respond to said simulation and what we believe it to be.

There is no reason why a theist cannot understand the universe as being a creation of a creator, and in that, being a Reality Simulation created specifically to be experienced.
Experienced as real. Experienced as a reality.
Add some talking animals and dead bodies reanimating and then we can talk!
(I kid of course).

Being in a simulation cannot be ruled out as far as I know. However, I do find it odd that the building blocks for life would be found in outer space if we are simply in a simulation. There would be little reason to find them in space if we were in a simulation. Arguing that whatever created the simulation did this to fool us would be a valid argument of course.

Chemicals reacting to their properties currently seems like the most likely reason for life and how the universe works IMO.
(I'm certainly not an authority on the matter, just offering my 2 cents).
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