Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

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John Human
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Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

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When I lived in Bali, I couldn't help observing the pervasive evidence of belief in demons. And of course demons put in an appearance in the Bible, not to mention in the gargoyles of old cathedrals.

On the other hand, modern science would seem to categorically reject the existence of demons, without a clear reason why, unless it has to do with the axiomatic presuppositions of science's governing ideology of reductionist materialism.

Question: Do demons exist? What evidence is there, for or against?

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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #121

Post by William »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:38 pm
mgb wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:28 am This is an important point. Psychology has relabeled and renamed many aspects of spiritual reality. In this respect it is in danger of replacing reality with a tautology. What is 'schizophrenia'? It is a label on a set of symptoms, that is all.
Schizophrenia is far more'n just its label. My entire adult life has been spent fighting against this disease. I go from the highs of my delusions, to the depths of my despair. It's a condition far more than just a label. The voices want me to kill myself. The voices hate me. Off my meds, I quickly revert to a paranoid, voice hearing wreck.
The way society deals with the issue means not so nice side-effects can happen re the drugs.

I was thinking of your post here Joey, while at work this morning and Spirit reminded me [aka I was reminding myself] of a one of those TED-Talk video's where a sciencey pretty thing suffering similar "symptoms" as you describe, tells how she dealt with it. Eleanor Longden is pretty things name and the title of video is " The voices in my head"

Not saying her witness need be a course you could take, but sharing it with you so you have another point of view from someone who can at least empathize with the condition.

I will note now, that never once did she call on a Christian for the healing power of exorcism ...well I did say she was into science....




"Symptoms" doesn't do it justice. It's a life lived never being sure of where reality and delusion part ways. It's the fear of having an episode in front of family. I say family cause I don't really have any friends. When I meet folks the voices come in about thirty to sixty minutes. "You're a lousy..." "You're better off dead...". Unless the meds decide to work, I'm as fun to be around as an evangelical.

There's no known cure. So they dope ya up with this or that, and all the dope does is dull the senses. Makes ya easier to manage. It ain't about a cure, it's about lessening the aggravation ya cause others. Owing to several incidents, I'm not allowed off my property unless I'm accompanied by my "adult guardian". "Guardian" is what the doctors and courts call the woman I love. My Pretty Thing is my jailer, my probation officer, my nurse, my "guardian". I go back to the rubber room on her whim alone. No court. No doctor. Whim. Thankfully she sees something worthy in me.
What causes these symptoms? Psychologists cannot even agree with each other on this point.
There's data to suggest that hearing voices is the product of a misfiring brain.The regions responsible for hearing appear to be hyperactive. I'm unaware on if it's been determined to be poor electrical wiring, or down to associated chemical imbalances.

The association with the more damaging or paranoid thought isn't as well understood. My research finds no interesting or compelling explanations. I do remember seeing "witches in shadows", or the "shadows of witches" when I was around six or seven. About a decade ago I remember reading a paper that mentioned this, but haven't found anything about it since. So the common thinking that it presents in early adulthood might be off for some cases.

In my case, the delusions are peculiarly not of a religious nature, but more along the lines of "I'm better and smarter", to the point I embarrass myself sometimes (unmedicated). I've been told our delusions often speak of our desires. Having just an eighth grade education and a curious mind, maybe my regretting a lack of a better education comes through in my delusions.

As it is with the medical and psychological sciences, much remains a mystery regarding a disease with both physical and psychological consequences. Continued study and experimentation is the schizophrenic's only hope. I'll die with this disease. It might not kill me outright, but in many ways it's bled me dry.

Just thought I'd share. Oh man I hate that. In the homes or the walls, "sharing" is how we understand our disease. It's how we learn to recognize when an episode is imminent. It works, but it feels like an episode of Oprah.

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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #122

Post by JoeyKnothead »

mgb wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:20 pm I'm sorry to hear of your struggle in this area. I hope you will triumph eventually.
Thanks.
mgb wrote: When I say 'schizophrenia' I am referring to a word, not a disease. Words are labels. Different labels may refer to the same thing. Like the bard said A rose by any other name is still a rose.

When I speak about symptoms I am saying that until we understand what schizophrenia is we can only refer to symptoms. This is not meant to demean anybody's struggle with this disease. If you ask a psychiatrist what schizophrenia is s/he will only describe its symptoms because they don't really know what it is. There are various theories about it but none of the are rigorously established.
Fer sher. For the record I didn't take offense, but wanted to kinda educate.

And ya sure ain't wrong - with all the study and advances, there's still a lot we don't know.
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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #123

Post by JoeyKnothead »

William wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:01 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:38 pm
mgb wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:28 am This is an important point. Psychology has relabeled and renamed many aspects of spiritual reality. In this respect it is in danger of replacing reality with a tautology. What is 'schizophrenia'? It is a label on a set of symptoms, that is all.
Schizophrenia is far more'n just its label. My entire adult life has been spent fighting against this disease. I go from the highs of my delusions, to the depths of my despair. It's a condition far more than just a label. The voices want me to kill myself. The voices hate me. Off my meds, I quickly revert to a paranoid, voice hearing wreck.
The way society deals with the issue means not so nice side-effects can happen re the drugs.

I was thinking of your post here Joey, while at work this morning and Spirit reminded me [aka I was reminding myself] of a one of those TED-Talk video's where a sciencey pretty thing suffering similar "symptoms" as you describe, tells how she dealt with it. Eleanor Longden is pretty things name and the title of video is " The voices in my head"

Not saying her witness need be a course you could take, but sharing it with you so you have another point of view from someone who can at least empathize with the condition.

I will note now, that never once did she call on a Christian for the healing power of exorcism ...well I did say she was into science....


She's lived it. She's kinda famous in the clinics and rooms I get sent to.

It's weird to say, but I find this disease kinda intriguing. I'm just sane enough to realize I ain't.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #124

Post by Grunt0311 »

Jesus cast out demons from people;therefore, they exist.

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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #125

Post by Miles »

Grunt0311 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:02 pm Jesus cast out demons from people;therefore, they exist.
Yeah.

Matthew 8:28-34
31 The demons begged him, “If you cast us out, send us into the herd of swine.” 32 And he said to them, “Go!” So they came out and entered the swine; and suddenly, the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and perished in the water.

Mark 5:11-13
11 Now there on the hillside a great herd of swine was feeding; 12 and the unclean spirits begged him, “Send us into the swine; let us enter them.” 13 So he gave them permission. And the unclean spirits came out and entered the swine; and the herd, numbering about two thousand, rushed down the steep bank into the sea, and were drowned in the sea.

Luke 8:32-33
32 Now there on the hillside a large herd of swine was feeding; and the demons begged Jesus to let them enter these. So he gave them permission. 33 Then the demons came out of the man and entered the swine, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned.


So what did Jesus have against pigs that he had to kill them? After all, these were god's creatures weren't they? OR was Jesus beholding to the demons in some way that he had to acquiesce to their request? If he wasn't, why not save the poor pigs and simply make the demons vanish *poof* into thin air, or was this beyond Jesus's power?



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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #126

Post by Grunt0311 »

Every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus as Lord to the glory of God the Father. That will be done at one’s salvation and or at the great white throne of God’s judgement.

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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #127

Post by Miles »

Grunt0311 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:08 am Every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus as Lord to the glory of God the Father. That will be done at one’s salvation and or at the great white throne of God’s judgement.
How about some straight answers rather than ducking behind irrelevant scripture. After all, this is a Debate Forum. If you can't or don't want to debate there are several other places here where you can exchange bible verses.


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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #128

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Grunt0311 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:02 pm Jesus cast out demons from people; therefore, they exist.
If only there were some means by which we might confirm your statement is trustworthy.

And not just the usual preacher's tactic of asserting truth in its absence.
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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #129

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Grunt0311 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:08 am Every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus as Lord to the glory of God the Father. That will be done at one’s salvation and or at the great white throne of God’s judgement.
I can declare dirt soup is bettern fried pork rinds, that don't make it so.

How can we trust in, or confirm what you assert is true and factual?

It'd be a shame if folks thought you were just here to tell lies.
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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

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Post by Grunt0311 »

Sure you can;however, pork rinds did not create the universe.

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