Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

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John Human
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Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

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Post by John Human »

When I lived in Bali, I couldn't help observing the pervasive evidence of belief in demons. And of course demons put in an appearance in the Bible, not to mention in the gargoyles of old cathedrals.

On the other hand, modern science would seem to categorically reject the existence of demons, without a clear reason why, unless it has to do with the axiomatic presuppositions of science's governing ideology of reductionist materialism.

Question: Do demons exist? What evidence is there, for or against?

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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

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Post by JoeyKnothead »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 10:17 am
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:31 pm
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Naw now, that'ns a productive'n, where in just a brief few words it points out your admitting to being deceptive.

And how ya know who else is deceptive?

Satan. It's Satan who's also deceptive.
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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #452

Post by AquinasForGod »

I did not see anyone offer evidence that demons do not exist.

They only stated that they do not exist. I am sure it is because they see no scientific evidence for demons, but why would they?

Why would there be scientific evidence for demons if demons are metaphysical beings? The scientific method cannot afford or deny the existence of metaphysical things. Demons are metaphysical things, so there cannot be an affirmation or denial of them using the scientific method.

Is there evidence that demons exist? Maybe. Catholic exorcists have a strict protocol for determining if someone is demon-possessed. They must rule out all natural explanations. Only 1 in 200 to 1 in 1000 people that contact the church turns out to be possessed. For most people that act possessed, the church finds natural explanations and says they are not possessed.

One of the things it is said that demons can do is put ideas into your mind. In Islam, this is called whispers.

You ever get those thoughts that seem so bizarre and you think, why did I just think that? Did I just think that? No, that wasn't me. It just came out of nowhere.

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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #453

Post by Clownboat »

AquinasForGod wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:42 am I did not see anyone offer evidence that demons do not exist.
How would you go about providing evidence that something doesn't exist when it doesn't exist? Not having evidence for a proposed concept suggests that it doesn't exist. Providing evidence would suggest it does exist. We have no evidence for demons, this should suggest that they don't exist.
They only stated that they do not exist. I am sure it is because they see no scientific evidence for demons, but why would they?

Correct. There would be no evidence for things that don't exist. Do you have any evidence to suggest demons do exist? If not, like fairies, I'll continue to assume they don't exist until or unless reasonable evidence is provided.
Why would there be scientific evidence for demons if demons are metaphysical beings?

Wrong question. Why would there be evidence for things that don't exist? Answer, there wouldn't be. I then take note of concepts humans claim exist without being able to provide evidence for their existence.
The scientific method cannot afford or deny the existence of metaphysical things.
It also cannot rule out things that don't exist... for them not existing. Do note, the scientific method can evidence things like black holes and dark matter as they have features we can detect even if said thing cannot be evidence directly.
What do you have for demons?
Demons are metaphysical things, so there cannot be an affirmation or denial of them using the scientific method.
Are you saying the demons that possesed the pigs in the Bible were metaphysical? How is that even possible?
Is there evidence that demons exist? Maybe. Catholic exorcists have a strict protocol for determining if someone is demon-possessed. They must rule out all natural explanations. Only 1 in 200 to 1 in 1000 people that contact the church turns out to be possessed. For most people that act possessed, the church finds natural explanations and says they are not possessed.

Either demons exist or they don't. What does the Catholic church have to do with it?
One of the things it is said that demons can do is put ideas into your mind. In Islam, this is called whispers.

And a succubus will approach males in their dreams to have sex with them. It is said anyway. Convinced?
You ever get those thoughts that seem so bizarre and you think, why did I just think that? Did I just think that? No, that wasn't me. It just came out of nowhere.
Humans have evolved the trait to assign agency to things.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... ble-beings
Why, for example, is belief in invisible, supernatural agents - such as ghosts, angels, dead ancestors, and gods - so widespread?
Barrett suggests we have evolved to be overly sensitive to agency. We evolved in an environment containing many agents - family members, friends, rivals, predators, prey, and so on. Spotting and understanding other agents helps us survive and reproduce. So we evolved to be sensitive to them - oversensitive in fact. Hear a rustle in the bushes behind you and you instinctively spin round, looking for an agent. Most times, there's no one there - just the wind in the leaves. But, in the environment in which we evolved, on those few occasions when there was an agent present, detecting it might well save your life. Far better to avoid several imaginary predators than be eaten by a real one. Thus evolution will select for an inheritable tendency to not just detect - but over detect - agency. We have evolved to possess (or, perhaps more plausibly, to be) hyper-active agency detectors.
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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #454

Post by JoeyKnothead »

AquinasForGod wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:42 am ..
Is there evidence that demons exist? Maybe. Catholic exorcists have a strict protocol for determining if someone is demon-possessed.
That the Catholic hierarchy shuffled around known pedophiles, covering up their crimes, and employing financial shenanigans to avoid financial responsibility, is all the proof I need to know demons exist, and can often be found within churches or other 'godly' places.

How many of these pedophiles ever suffered the idiocy of an "exorcism"?

We'll see, time and again, the religious consider anything they ain't proud of is a demon.
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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #455

Post by benchwarmer »

AquinasForGod wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:42 am Demons are metaphysical things, so there cannot be an affirmation or denial of them using the scientific method.
Without any observational evidence of 'demons', how can you know that they are metaphysical things? Or for that matter, any 'things' at all? Is this purely by definition?

It seems to be common among religious 'things' (gods/angels/demons/spirits/etc) that can't be observed. Just declare them metaphysical and carry on assigning them whatever traits you like since no one can show evidence one way or the other.

Can I interest you in blarglesods? They are wondrous. Oh, and they are metaphysical, so.... you'll just have to take my word for it.

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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #456

Post by Diagoras »

AquinasForGod wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:42 am I did not see anyone offer evidence that demons do not exist.
No, in this thread you saw the OP claim to be in contact with a demon, and me asking a series of questions that had the potential to prove its existence if answered.

No answers were supplied. I’ll keep an open mind, though. The offer remains on the table.

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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #457

Post by AquinasForGod »

[Replying to Diagoras in post #456]

I see. Yeah, I agree that it will be difficult to prove one is in contact with a demon because they lie and do not wish to be known openly. I think the demon would lie in order to make the person in contact seem like he was not in contact with a demon.

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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #458

Post by brunumb »

AquinasForGod wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 3:55 am [Replying to Diagoras in post #456]

I see. Yeah, I agree that it will be difficult to prove one is in contact with a demon because they lie and do not wish to be known openly. I think the demon would lie in order to make the person in contact seem like he was not in contact with a demon.
And you know this how?
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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #459

Post by AquinasForGod »

[Replying to brunumb in post #458]

How do you know anything?

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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #460

Post by JoeyKnothead »

AquinasForGod wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 4:34 am [Replying to brunumb in post #458]

How do you know anything?
Being sentient helps.
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