Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

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John Human
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Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #1

Post by John Human »

When I lived in Bali, I couldn't help observing the pervasive evidence of belief in demons. And of course demons put in an appearance in the Bible, not to mention in the gargoyles of old cathedrals.

On the other hand, modern science would seem to categorically reject the existence of demons, without a clear reason why, unless it has to do with the axiomatic presuppositions of science's governing ideology of reductionist materialism.

Question: Do demons exist? What evidence is there, for or against?

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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #2

Post by Sergio »

[Replying to post 1 by John Human]

What is the evidence? Have you gone through any brain scans?

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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #3

Post by John Human »

Sergio wrote: [Replying to post 1 by John Human]

What is the evidence?
You repeat the second question from my opening post. The question was an invitation for YOU (and anyone else) to share your thoughts.
Have you gone through any brain scans?
Perhaps you could explain how that personal question relates to the topic of this thread. Otherwise, perhaps that question should be withdrawn.
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"God don't let me lose my nerve" -- "Put Your Lights On"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCBS5EtszYI

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-- "Wild Goose Chase" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L45toPpEv0

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-- "All You Zombies" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63O_cAclG3A[/i]

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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #4

Post by Difflugia »

[Replying to post 1 by John Human]

A different way to think about the problem is that science actually described what several demons are. Many effects that were once blamed on demons are now known to be symptoms of mental illness. Does science deny the existence of demons or did it simply describe and rename them?

Malaria was once thought to be caused by swamp fumes (mal aria = evil air). It's now known to be a Plasmodium infection. Is that a denial of malaria? Of "evil air"?

If somebody thinks a demon (or malaria) is something different, then we need a description of what it is and what the symptoms of its existence are. Without those, you're just asking "why does science deny the thing?"e

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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #5

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to post 1 by John Human]
Question: Do demons exist? What evidence is there, for or against?
As no legitimate (ie. scientific, observational, measurable, reproducible, real-world) evidence for their existence has ever been produced, it is safe to assume that they do not exist and can be placed in the same category as all other supernatural entities such as gods, devils, angels, leprechauns, fairies, spirits, etc. etc. These entities exist only in the minds of humans who believe in the supernatural, despite it never having been demonstrated to exist.
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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #6

Post by John Human »

DrNoGods wrote: [Replying to post 1 by John Human]
Question: Do demons exist? What evidence is there, for or against?
As no legitimate (ie. scientific, observational, measurable, reproducible, real-world) evidence for their existence has ever been produced, it is safe to assume that they do not exist and can be placed in the same category as all other supernatural entities such as gods, devils, angels, leprechauns, fairies, spirits, etc. etc. These entities exist only in the minds of humans who believe in the supernatural, despite it never having been demonstrated to exist.
Ancient Demon will act:
"Ancient Demon will tell the man Dr. NoGods about reductionist materialism. Ancient Demon was in Rome. Ancient Demon did not involve itself in the debate over the new science. The doctrine was of Venetian origin. Ancient Demon was confident that this doctrine would not become prevalent, because the doctrine was absolutely preposterous. Every human has the capacity to 'hear.' The only way this new doctrine could become prevalent was for people to arbitrarily deny this capacity to 'hear.'

"Ancient Demon saw that slowly happen. The new doctrine was like a disease, that slowly spread from one university to another. The manner in which it spread was the employment of new professors. The leaders of the university were always needing money. Money was offered. The condition was simple: Hire a professor of the new science who loudly denied the capacity to 'hear.' This capacity became re-defined as insanity.

"Ancient Demon observed the development of awareness of the spread of this new doctrine. Venice was the root. Venice did not propagate the new doctrine inside Venice until very late. First was England. Then France. Germany was a battleground, with Leibniz and followers resisting as defenders of the science of the Renaissance. The new science did not complete the domination of Germany until the unification of Germany led to the crushing of the Renaissance in Bavaria.

"Ancient Demon observed the decline in awareness among bishops. Even bishops who were aware did not openly act as they were. They knew that this part of human nature had been declared out. The new way was able to sever the old ability of humans to communicate with each other using the mind alone. At the highest level of the Church, this ability exists, and this ability is cultivated in monasteries. Ancient Demon is aware that monasteries are slowly disappearing. However, in recent decades, growing awareness in the West of Eastern religion has led to renewal of the ability to communicate using the mind alone in people associated with the New Age. Ancient Demon is aware that this ability also exists among ordinary people who are careful to not discuss or admit. They tyranny of the new science must be defended by the watchers in the universities. The man formerly seen as Dr. NoGods was one such watcher."

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Post #7

Post by JJ50 »

Demons are as mythical as fairies, imo.

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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #8

Post by benchwarmer »

John Human wrote: On the other hand, modern science would seem to categorically reject the existence of demons, without a clear reason why
I think the reason why it seems this way is crystal clear. No verifiable evidence of demons has yet been put forward. Can you even clearly define what a demon is? In other words, what is it you think scientists should be looking for and how?

Note that science does not state that demons don't exist. It's impossible to categorically state that an undefined, unevidenced entity does not exist.
John Human wrote: Question: Do demons exist? What evidence is there, for or against?
--
As above, what's a demon? Not some wishy washy hand waving, what precisely is it that we are looking for and how?

At this point, the only answer can be "I don't know, since I don't know what you are talking about exactly".

I'm unaware of any verifiable evidence for 'demons'. Please enlighten us if you have some.

There can be none against. What there is, is a complete lack of anything for.

Do you have evidence against invisible, pink unicorns that hand out cotton candy?

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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #9

Post by Divine Insight »

benchwarmer wrote: Do you have evidence against invisible, pink unicorns that hand out cotton candy?
That pretty much says it all right there. Science doesn't bother trying to disprove things for which there is no shred of evidence for.

If someone wants to prove the existence of demons it's up to them to come up with a way to test that. If they can't offer a way to test their own hypothesis then they already have a hypothesis that cannot be tested. Hypotheses that cannot be tested are not within the scope of science. Nor are they within the scope of anything else beyond just plain guessing. And if they don't even have a meaningful definition for what constitutes a demon, then what are they even guessing about?

What's the difference between a demon and a boogieman?

Is a demon nothing more than a boogieman who has evil intent? If so then the burden to prove the existence of a demon boils down to proving the existence of two things.

1. The existence of boogiemen (whatever that means)
2. And proof that at least some boogiemen have evil intentions.
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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

Post #10

Post by rikuoamero »

John Human wrote:
DrNoGods wrote: [Replying to post 1 by John Human]
Question: Do demons exist? What evidence is there, for or against?
As no legitimate (ie. scientific, observational, measurable, reproducible, real-world) evidence for their existence has ever been produced, it is safe to assume that they do not exist and can be placed in the same category as all other supernatural entities such as gods, devils, angels, leprechauns, fairies, spirits, etc. etc. These entities exist only in the minds of humans who believe in the supernatural, despite it never having been demonstrated to exist.
Ancient Demon will act:
"Ancient Demon will tell the man Dr. NoGods about reductionist materialism. Ancient Demon was in Rome. Ancient Demon did not involve itself in the debate over the new science. The doctrine was of Venetian origin. Ancient Demon was confident that this doctrine would not become prevalent, because the doctrine was absolutely preposterous. Every human has the capacity to 'hear.' The only way this new doctrine could become prevalent was for people to arbitrarily deny this capacity to 'hear.'

"Ancient Demon saw that slowly happen. The new doctrine was like a disease, that slowly spread from one university to another. The manner in which it spread was the employment of new professors. The leaders of the university were always needing money. Money was offered. The condition was simple: Hire a professor of the new science who loudly denied the capacity to 'hear.' This capacity became re-defined as insanity.

"Ancient Demon observed the development of awareness of the spread of this new doctrine. Venice was the root. Venice did not propagate the new doctrine inside Venice until very late. First was England. Then France. Germany was a battleground, with Leibniz and followers resisting as defenders of the science of the Renaissance. The new science did not complete the domination of Germany until the unification of Germany led to the crushing of the Renaissance in Bavaria.

"Ancient Demon observed the decline in awareness among bishops. Even bishops who were aware did not openly act as they were. They knew that this part of human nature had been declared out. The new way was able to sever the old ability of humans to communicate with each other using the mind alone. At the highest level of the Church, this ability exists, and this ability is cultivated in monasteries. Ancient Demon is aware that monasteries are slowly disappearing. However, in recent decades, growing awareness in the West of Eastern religion has led to renewal of the ability to communicate using the mind alone in people associated with the New Age. Ancient Demon is aware that this ability also exists among ordinary people who are careful to not discuss or admit. They tyranny of the new science must be defended by the watchers in the universities. The man formerly seen as Dr. NoGods was one such watcher."
This sure put DrNoGods in his place. This is a very sound rebuttal and cannot itself be refuted. Simply typing that an ancient demon is saying something refutes entirely what someone else says regarding demons not being shown to exist.

My Little Pony says...(fill in the blanks yourself if you want to). I guess my little pony now talks too?

By the way, can you tell us anything about DrNoGods that he hasn't already said himself?
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