When I lived in Bali, I couldn't help observing the pervasive evidence of belief in demons. And of course demons put in an appearance in the Bible, not to mention in the gargoyles of old cathedrals.
On the other hand, modern science would seem to categorically reject the existence of demons, without a clear reason why, unless it has to do with the axiomatic presuppositions of science's governing ideology of reductionist materialism.
Question: Do demons exist? What evidence is there, for or against?
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Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
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Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #1"Love is a force in the universe." -- Interstellar
"God don't let me lose my nerve" -- "Put Your Lights On"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCBS5EtszYI
"Who shall save the human race?"
-- "Wild Goose Chase" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L45toPpEv0
"A piece is gonna fall on you..."
-- "All You Zombies" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63O_cAclG3A[/i]
"God don't let me lose my nerve" -- "Put Your Lights On"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCBS5EtszYI
"Who shall save the human race?"
-- "Wild Goose Chase" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L45toPpEv0
"A piece is gonna fall on you..."
-- "All You Zombies" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63O_cAclG3A[/i]
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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #401[Replying to John Human in post #399]
Glad to see you're back in the thread - perhaps now you'd like to have a go at answering some of my earlier questions? Here's the link:
viewtopic.php?p=1047006#p1047006
Don't feel obliged to answer all the questions, by the way. Maybe just pick one or two as a 'warm up' exercise for now.
Glad to see you're back in the thread - perhaps now you'd like to have a go at answering some of my earlier questions? Here's the link:
viewtopic.php?p=1047006#p1047006
Don't feel obliged to answer all the questions, by the way. Maybe just pick one or two as a 'warm up' exercise for now.
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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #402Perhaps you can pick one or two questions of particular interest. Once again, to repeat what Ancient Demon said, would you like it to visit you? Or perhaps it already has?Diagoras wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 4:19 pm [Replying to John Human in post #399]
Glad to see you're back in the thread - perhaps now you'd like to have a go at answering some of my earlier questions? Here's the link:
viewtopic.php?p=1047006#p1047006
Don't feel obliged to answer all the questions, by the way. Maybe just pick one or two as a 'warm up' exercise for now.
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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #403[Replying to John Human in post #402]
Here's a couple for now:
1) How would one go about discriminating between the houses with or without a resident demon?
As to the kind offer of Ancient Demon visiting me, I'm happy to accomodate. I'm fairly sure this hasn't happened yet, though - what signs should I be looking out for?
Here's a couple for now:
1) How would one go about discriminating between the houses with or without a resident demon?
2) I note that you put the word ‘energy’ in quotes. Does that mean it’s not energy in the usual sense that a scientist might use it? Can it be quantified or measured in any way, and if not, upon what basis should we take its existence as fact?John Human wrote:Demons are spiritual (non-physical) beings that need "energy" from humans to survive.
As to the kind offer of Ancient Demon visiting me, I'm happy to accomodate. I'm fairly sure this hasn't happened yet, though - what signs should I be looking out for?
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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #404John Human left the building shortly after this;Diagoras wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:39 pm [Replying to John Human in post #402]
Here's a couple for now:
1) How would one go about discriminating between the houses with or without a resident demon?
2) I note that you put the word ‘energy’ in quotes. Does that mean it’s not energy in the usual sense that a scientist might use it? Can it be quantified or measured in any way, and if not, upon what basis should we take its existence as fact?John Human wrote:Demons are spiritual (non-physical) beings that need "energy" from humans to survive.
As to the kind offer of Ancient Demon visiting me, I'm happy to accomodate. I'm fairly sure this hasn't happened yet, though - what signs should I be looking out for?
Musing on The Ancient Demon
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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #405Regarding your first question, perhaps you could clarify. Is it possible that you mis-read what I wrote?Diagoras wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:39 pm [Replying to John Human in post #402]
Here's a couple for now:
1) How would one go about discriminating between the houses with or without a resident demon?
2) I note that you put the word ‘energy’ in quotes. Does that mean it’s not energy in the usual sense that a scientist might use it? Can it be quantified or measured in any way, and if not, upon what basis should we take its existence as fact?John Human wrote:Demons are spiritual (non-physical) beings that need "energy" from humans to survive.
As to the kind offer of Ancient Demon visiting me, I'm happy to accomodate. I'm fairly sure this hasn't happened yet, though - what signs should I be looking out for?
Regarding the second question, I put the word "energy" in quotes to indicate that I was using the word metaphorically for what gives sustenance to demons.
Regarding Ancient Demon's visit, Ancient Demon will speak:
Ancient Demon did indeed visit. The man, calling himself Diagoras, was unaware until a shock happened. Diagoras was unwilling to recognize the word "DEMON," but he did make a sign of the cross.
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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #406Now I am really curious. What does give sustenance to demons and what happens if they don't get it?John Human wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 10:16 pm Regarding the second question, I put the word "energy" in quotes to indicate that I was using the word metaphorically for what gives sustenance to demons.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #407Rephrasing the first question: How does someone determine whether a building has a resident demon in it?John Human wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 10:16 pmRegarding your first question, perhaps you could clarify. Is it possible that you mis-read what I wrote?Diagoras wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:39 pm [Replying to John Human in post #402]
Here's a couple for now:
1) How would one go about discriminating between the houses with or without a resident demon?
2) I note that you put the word ‘energy’ in quotes. Does that mean it’s not energy in the usual sense that a scientist might use it? Can it be quantified or measured in any way, and if not, upon what basis should we take its existence as fact?John Human wrote:Demons are spiritual (non-physical) beings that need "energy" from humans to survive.
As to the kind offer of Ancient Demon visiting me, I'm happy to accomodate. I'm fairly sure this hasn't happened yet, though - what signs should I be looking out for?
Regarding the second question, I put the word "energy" in quotes to indicate that I was using the word metaphorically for what gives sustenance to demons.
Regarding Ancient Demon's visit, Ancient Demon will speak:
Ancient Demon did indeed visit. The man, calling himself Diagoras, was unaware until a shock happened. Diagoras was unwilling to recognize the word "DEMON," but he did make a sign of the cross.
For the second question, I recognise that you don't mean energy in the same sense that a scientist would use it. So, can 'what gives sustenance to demons' be quantified or measured in any way, and if not, upon what basis should we take its existence as fact?
Now, as to the 'visit', it's interesting that you provided two key, verifiable pieces of information: a 'shock' happened to make Diagoras aware, and he made the sign of the cross. Given that my acceptance of a visit only happened a day or so ago, and that I have neither had a shock of any kind, nor made any sign even remotely like the cross, we must regretfully conclude that Ancient Demon mistook some other person for me.
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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #408Regarding the first question, I will limit my discussion to churches. When I was a child, approaching the tabernacle in the church my family attended resulted in a peculiar sensation, together with the impression that I should not get too close. I now understand this as the effect of the resident church demon. Of course a church may have more than one resident demon.Diagoras wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 11:03 pmRephrasing the first question: How does someone determine whether a building has a resident demon in it?John Human wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 10:16 pm
Regarding your first question, perhaps you could clarify. Is it possible that you mis-read what I wrote?
Regarding the second question, I put the word "energy" in quotes to indicate that I was using the word metaphorically for what gives sustenance to demons.
Regarding Ancient Demon's visit, Ancient Demon will speak:
Ancient Demon did indeed visit. The man, calling himself Diagoras, was unaware until a shock happened. Diagoras was unwilling to recognize the word "DEMON," but he did make a sign of the cross.
For the second question, I recognise that you don't mean energy in the same sense that a scientist would use it. So, can 'what gives sustenance to demons' be quantified or measured in any way, and if not, upon what basis should we take its existence as fact?
Now, as to the 'visit', it's interesting that you provided two key, verifiable pieces of information: a 'shock' happened to make Diagoras aware, and he made the sign of the cross. Given that my acceptance of a visit only happened a day or so ago, and that I have neither had a shock of any kind, nor made any sign even remotely like the cross, we must regretfully conclude that Ancient Demon mistook some other person for me.
One way to ascertain if a church has a resident demon is to try to communicate with it. It might just tell you to leave, if you're not part of the congregation.
Regarding the second question, I am reminded of a quote from Nikolai Tesla:
"The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence."
Regarding Ancient Demon's visit, you said that I "provided two key, verifiable pieces of information." Please keep in mind that I did so only as a reporter or messenger of the words of another. (Of course that statement brings up logical questions, in the mind of a skeptical inquirer, regarding my honesty and accuracy.)
Ancient Demon will now speak, as I record:
Ancient Demon did not make a great shock. The man is able to pretend that what he felt can not be properly defined as a shock. The sign of the cross was abbreviated. This allowed the man to pretend that he did not.
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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #409[Replying to John Human in post #408]
Ancient Demon will now speak, as I reco ... e did not.
I thought you had left the building JH. My bad.
Do you have a description of "Ancient Demon"?
Ancient Demon will now speak, as I reco ... e did not.
I thought you had left the building JH. My bad.
Do you have a description of "Ancient Demon"?
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Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #410I did indeed "leave the building." Some time ago I decided to withdraw, just before you invited me to your "campfire" sub-forum. I then interacted with you for a time there (because I had reason to doubt your good faith), so I decided that was also not a good use of my time, so I "left the house" completely.William wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 12:17 pm [Replying to John Human in post #408]
Ancient Demon will now speak, as I reco ... e did not.
I thought you had left the building JH. My bad.
Do you have a description of "Ancient Demon"?
Recently, a google search brought up the old "demon" thread in the Christianity and Apologetics sub-forum, so I checked it out and made a post, and then discovered, to my surprise, that this demon thread (in the Science and Religion sub-forum) was still active.