Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

[John Human]

When I lived in Bali, I couldn't help observing the pervasive evidence of belief in demons. And of course demons put in an appearance in the Bible, not to mention in the gargoyles of old cathedrals.

On the other hand, modern science would seem to categorically reject the existence of demons, without a clear reason why, unless it has to do with the axiomatic presuppositions of science's governing ideology of reductionist materialism.

Question: Do demons exist? What evidence is there, for or against?

--

[William]

John Human: Question: Do demons exist? What evidence is there, for or against?

William: If demons exist, there is no evidence of them being anything more than a possible entity using a human host as a medium.

My own studies show that the most likely reason for the existence of demons, is not other demons creating them. Rather, it is human beings who have created them.

In that, the demons require human beings to continue to believe in their existence so that they can exist in the aspect of the Astral Plain which itself exists because of human imagination and accompanying belief systems and literally is home to everything human beings have ever imagined as real.

This is a mirror effect ability which humans have inherited from the Creator GOD, who is also able to think things into existence.
In this, the physical reality, human beings are restricted as to what they can create,because there imaginations cannot make things happen instantaneously, which is a property of the aspect of the Astral Plain every human being will eventually experience as real - in the next phase - Afterlife.

Demons and Angels are created through human imagination and exist primarily in the aspect of the Astral Plain which allows for this.
They, long ago, realized that their creators were unaware that Angels and Demons were the creation of human beings, and this allowed for Angels and Demons to trick humans into continuing to strengthen the Angelic/Demonic domains to have a much greater permanence.

Other parts of the aspect of the Astral Plain housing the product of human imagination are in disrepair - some unrecognizable from previous renditions, due to the fact that human beings stopped believing in them.

Angelic/Demonic beings have devised a way in which they can always have the upper hand and dictate to humans to a certain degree as to what humans should believe. It is by and large a survival technique on the part of the Angels/Demons but has branched out into so many sub-branches that it has become the dominating feature of the landscape of this aspect of the Astral Plain.

Generally it is not a bad thing, but there has been darker consequences which have resulted in necessary rules to govern these, for the sake of stability.

This is merely one aspect of the Astral Plain, but a rather large one at that.
The total Astral Plain (including the aspect of the Astral Plain housing the product of human imagination) are all situated within the Mind of The Earth Entity, and it is this Mind which gives the ability for human imagination to come alive and be experienced as real.

I Believe that there is an option for an individual human to have their creations remain real forever. This is not granted by the Angels/Demons...rather it is a gift from The Mother Earth as individual Humans ask her.

Ultimately then, it is worthwhile for the Angels/Demons to encourage their human creators to ask The Mother for this gift...understanding that The Mother requires a certain change of attitude in any of the Angels/Demons humans have created, before the wish can be granted.

If not, then ultimately they will be deleted.

Some Angels/Demons don't like that idea and have sought to usurp The Mother by confusing Humans...ultimately this will never work, but The Mother is patient not wanting anything to be lost, but insisting on a certain level of behavior from all who wish to enjoy the fruits of longevity. Deleting is not the favored option. Saving is....

Ironically it becomes the continued task of humans in the next phase to encourage their creations to tow the line in regard to that. Angels understand this. Demons generally gave up caring...at least - how humans have evolved in understanding their creations in black and white/good and evil/light and dark terminology.

If one has created a demon which has given up caring, good advice would be to encourage it to have a reason to start caring again...

[alexxcJRO]

to the first question I replied: I doubt it, at least while communication between you and me is limited to this forum.

So no way to falsify.
Constructing an unfalsifiable claim. Pff.

No strong or compelling evidence either(just your own personal ramblings/opinions).

Q: Why believe something that can be not falsified is true without compelling, strong evidence, huh?

“Unfalsifiability
(also known as: untestability)
Description: Confidently asserting that a theory or hypothesis is true or false even though the theory or hypothesis cannot possibly be contradicted by an observation or the outcome of any physical experiment, usually without strong evidence or good reasons.

Making unfalsifiable claims is a way to leave the realm of rational discourse, since unfalsifiable claims are often faith-based, and not founded on evidence and reason.

Example #1:
I have tiny, invisible unicorns living in my anus. Unfortunately, these cannot be detected by any kind of scientific equipment.

Explanation: While it may actually be a fact that tiny, invisible, mythological creatures are occupying this person’s opening at the lower end of the alimentary canal, it is a theory that is constructed so it cannot be falsified in any way; therefore, should not be seriously considered without significant evidence.�
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/too ... ifiability

First of all is the question of what exactly is going on, in my brain and in my mind, while I am typing a received communication from a demon, versus what is going on when, say, I am typing an e-mail to my sister, or typing a summary of the original May 1776 U.S. independence resolution, or typing creative fiction (something that I have never done as an adult), or writing a song (something that I have indeed done several times), or writing about past personal experiences.

Most likely imaging will show volumetric changes in networks and regions beyond those involved in speech and language processing(volumetric reduction in parahippocampal gyrus7 and amygdala).
Therefore auditory hallucination.

“Nenadic and colleagues5 report an association between AH severity and reduced GMV in the left postcentral gyrus and posterior cingulate, a region thought to facilitate the integration of self-referential stimuli.6 Two VBM studies also report volumetric reduction in parahippocampal gyrus7 and amygdala8supporting the idea that alterations in limbic regions that are important for emotional regulation and processing are associated with AH.1 These studies demonstrate that volumetric changes in networks and regions beyond those involved in speech and language processing are clearly associated with AH.�
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3406523/

Can they plausibly be dismissed as a fabrication? Am I capable of or likely to invent the range of demon stories that I have shared? There is quite a lot of material there. If one posits the hypothesis that I fabricated the stories, the question of motivation comes up, which brings up the question of character assessment.

Of course fabrication/mental illness is most likely.

Fact1: People have imagined/conjured/invented/fabricated a myriad(in the millions) of magical/fantastical things through out the history: they claim to have seen/hear gods(Zeus, Hephaestus, Athena, Ares, Ra, Osiris, Anubis, Zamolxis, Odin, Thor, Seth, Vishnu, Shiva, Krishna, Cronos, An, Enki, Marduk, Allah, Yahweh, Jesus, Ahuiateteo, Moloch, Adonis ), aliens(Greys, Reptilians(Draconians), Little green men, Nordic/Aryan aliens(Space Brothers/ Pleiadeans/ Venusians/ Tall whites /Agarthans)), Leprechauns, Strigois, Yeti/Big Foot, Lake monster(Lock Nest Monster, Lake Tianchi Monster, Nahuelito), Mermaids, Fairies, Elfs, Nymphs, Goblins.

Fact2: There are myriads of example of mentally ill people(in the millions) suffering from Psychosis, bipolar disorder, Schizophrenia, Dementia, Narcolepsy, Sleep Paralysis all which causes auditory/visual halucination.


Fact3: No supernatural/magical/fantastical beings have ever being showed to actually exist.

The fact that no own outside your own can hear or interact with the demon coupled with Fact1, Fact2, Fact3 I am afraid points most likely to fabrication/mental illness.

[JJ50]

There is no evidence demons are anymore than human creations. It should be illegal to perform exorcisms on anyone especially children. I have heard some crazy people, even today, claim people with epilepsy are demonically possessed. A seizure can look very frightening, but of course has a medical cause.

[John Human]

There is no evidence demons are anymore than human creations. It should be illegal to perform exorcisms on anyone especially children.

At first glance, this seems illogical. If exorcisms happen, perhaps that is evidence for the existence of demons. Are you an expert on exorcisms? Your statement that exorcisms should be illegal is strongly worded. Why do you say such a thing?

Gabriele Amorth was the Chief Exorcist of Rome and founder of the International Association of Exorcists. He wrote An Exorcist Tells His Story (San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 1999, translation of the 12th Italian edition, 1994)

Quoting from page 15:

"I will recommend the following three books: Il diavolo by Monsignor Balducci (Piemme, 1988); its historical section is useful, but not the practical section. The book is limited in scope and contains numerous errors; the author is an expert in demonology, not in exorcisms. La preghiera di liberazione (Palermo: Herbita, 1985) by Father Matteo La Grua, who is an exorcist, was written for the renewal groups, and its intent is to guide their prayers of deliverance. Cronista all'inferno by Renzo Allegri (Mondadori 1990) is also worth mentioning. This volume is not a methodical research but a collection of reputable interviews. It presents extreme cases, the most sensational situations, which, while true, do not represent the normal daily workload of the exorcist.

"In conclusion: I have striven in these pages to fill a void and to present the argument from every angle, although concisely, in order to reach a greater number of readers. I intend to write further in other books, and I hope that others write with competence and religious sensitivity, so that the topic can be treated with the proper depth, which was found in times past among Catholics but is now found only among Protestants."

[Tcg]

If exorcisms happen, perhaps that is evidence for the existence of demons.

If exorcism happen, and sadly they do, that is evidence that exorcism happen.


Sasquatch hunts happen too, which is evidence that Sasquatch hunts happen.


The hunting adventures of some humans says nothing about the existence of either of these creatures no one has ever presented verifiable evidence of.



Tcg

[John Human]

Responding to Tcg: You earlier made a remark about "verifiable" evidence, implicitly acknowledging that some evidence is not "verifiable." Evidence that is not "verifiable" according to your standards is still evidence.

With your passing reference to Sasquatch-hunts, you flippantly dismiss a centuries-old, well-documented practice of exorcism, without engaging with any of the published works listed below.

Gabriele Amorth was the Chief Exorcist of Rome and founder of the International Association of Exorcists. He wrote An Exorcist Tells His Story (San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 1999, translation of the 12th Italian edition, 1994)

Quoting from page 15:

"I will recommend the following three books: Il diavolo by Monsignor Balducci (Piemme, 1988); its historical section is useful, but not the practical section. The book is limited in scope and contains numerous errors; the author is an expert in demonology, not in exorcisms. La preghiera di liberazione (Palermo: Herbita, 1985) by Father Matteo La Grua, who is an exorcist, was written for the renewal groups, and its intent is to guide their prayers of deliverance. Cronista all'inferno by Renzo Allegri (Mondadori 1990) is also worth mentioning. This volume is not a methodical research but a collection of reputable interviews. It presents extreme cases, the most sensational situations, which, while true, do not represent the normal daily workload of the exorcist.

"In conclusion: I have striven in these pages to fill a void and to present the argument from every angle, although concisely, in order to reach a greater number of readers. I intend to write further in other books, and I hope that others write with competence and religious sensitivity, so that the topic can be treated with the proper depth, which was found in times past among Catholics but is now found only among Protestants."

[Tcg]

With your passing reference to Sasquatch-hunts, you flippantly dismiss a centuries-old, well-documented practice of exorcism, without engaging with any of the published works listed below.

Published works of demon hunting do nothing but document the fact that some humans hunt demons. Demon hunting doesn't prove that demons exist. In spite of your inference that publishing a story of demon hunting somehow provides evidence that demons are real, it doesn't.


Publishing claims does not provide evidence that the published claims correspond to reality. All it does is provide evidence that some people publish claims.



Tcg

[John Human]

With your passing reference to Sasquatch-hunts, you flippantly dismiss a centuries-old, well-documented practice of exorcism, without engaging with any of the published works listed below.

Published works of demon hunting do nothing but document the fact that some humans hunt demons. Demon hunting doesn't prove that demons exist. In spite of your inference that publishing a story of demon hunting somehow provides evidence that demons are real, it doesn't.

Your phrase "demon hunting" for exorcism doesn't make sense, because the exorcist knows where the demon is.

More generally, you seem predisposed to dismiss without engaging, and the content of those books seems to make no difference to you.

Beyond that is your preposterous statement that the account of a leading exorcist doesn't constitute evidence for the existence of demons. You would simply dismiss this man's story of his life work. Based on what??

_________________

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to post 48 by John Human]

Beyond that is your preposterous statement that the account of a leading exorcist doesn't constitute evidence for the existence of demons.

ROFL!! That has to be your best one yet! Just read that comment slowly and carefully to see how ridiculous it is from so many angles.

I know it is not proper on this forum to make one-liner comments or comments that don't contribute to the debate, but you literally just posted that discarding the account of a "leading exorcist" (seriously ... I can hardly type that for laughing) was preposterous, and then implied that the accounts of this "leading exorcist" should be accepted without question as constituting evidence for the existence of demons!

This post may be deleted, but seriously ... how far off the rails can this get?

[Tcg]

You would simply dismiss this man's story of his life work. Based on what??

Based on the fact that claims aren't evidence.


Demon hunters who provide no verifiable evidence for the demons they claim to hunt should be dismissed. The fact that they dedicated their life to the unverifiable proves only that they dedicated their life to the unverifiable.



Tcg