When I lived in Bali, I couldn't help observing the pervasive evidence of belief in demons. And of course demons put in an appearance in the Bible, not to mention in the gargoyles of old cathedrals.
On the other hand, modern science would seem to categorically reject the existence of demons, without a clear reason why, unless it has to do with the axiomatic presuppositions of science's governing ideology of reductionist materialism.
Question: Do demons exist? What evidence is there, for or against?
--
Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Moderator: Moderators
-
- Scholar
- Posts: 354
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:49 pm
- Location: Seattle
- Been thanked: 6 times
Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #1"Love is a force in the universe." -- Interstellar
"God don't let me lose my nerve" -- "Put Your Lights On"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCBS5EtszYI
"Who shall save the human race?"
-- "Wild Goose Chase" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L45toPpEv0
"A piece is gonna fall on you..."
-- "All You Zombies" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63O_cAclG3A[/i]
"God don't let me lose my nerve" -- "Put Your Lights On"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCBS5EtszYI
"Who shall save the human race?"
-- "Wild Goose Chase" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L45toPpEv0
"A piece is gonna fall on you..."
-- "All You Zombies" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63O_cAclG3A[/i]
- JoeyKnothead
- Banned
- Posts: 20879
- Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
- Location: Here
- Has thanked: 4093 times
- Been thanked: 2572 times
Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #391According to your comments, couldn't we consider you suffer a bit of psychopathy when you declare psychopaths display their moral outrage... as you declare Hitler "evil" and suffering "megalomania"?mgb wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:36 am Hitler, I believe, never murdered anyone. But he was evil. Evil is many things. Hitler chose his own megalomania over his conscience and that is evil (yes, psychopaths do have a conscience, they just repress it because otherwise it would get in the way. If you offend a psychopath his moral outrage will become apparent and he will tell you in no uncertain terms why you are the culprit.)
And that if you reject the diagnosis, you're just "repressing"?
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin
-Punkinhead Martin
-
- Guru
- Posts: 1669
- Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:21 pm
- Location: Europe
- Has thanked: 10 times
- Been thanked: 21 times
Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #392No. This is just academic gymnastics. Evil is a spiritual pathology. To say good and evil are merely subjective is like saying sanity and insanity are merely subjective. If some guy tells you his dog told him to kill people you don't say his state of mind is merely subjective. He is insane by any meaningful standard.JoeyKnothead wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:01 amAccording to your comments, couldn't we consider you suffer a bit of psychopathy when you declare psychopaths display their moral outrage... as you declare Hitler "evil" and suffering "megalomania"?mgb wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:36 am Hitler, I believe, never murdered anyone. But he was evil. Evil is many things. Hitler chose his own megalomania over his conscience and that is evil (yes, psychopaths do have a conscience, they just repress it because otherwise it would get in the way. If you offend a psychopath his moral outrage will become apparent and he will tell you in no uncertain terms why you are the culprit.)
And that if you reject the diagnosis, you're just "repressing"?
- Difflugia
- Prodigy
- Posts: 3046
- Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:25 am
- Location: Michigan
- Has thanked: 3276 times
- Been thanked: 2023 times
Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #393You spelled "god" wrong.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.
- Difflugia
- Prodigy
- Posts: 3046
- Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:25 am
- Location: Michigan
- Has thanked: 3276 times
- Been thanked: 2023 times
Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #395Are those independent?
Your argument applies equally well to dogs and gods and since we're ultimately talking about gods, it's funny to me that "dog" is "god" spelled backwards. While I suppose I'd quibble over whether or not it was vitriolic and I didn't mean it that way, it was definitely meant to be sarcastic. The sarcasm was because I assumed that we'd both agree that you would have recognized the flaw in your argument if you'd stopped to think about it first, like someone spilling a glass of water while looking at a wristwatch, and that we'd both think either situation was funny.
If you'd prefer that I not assume that about you in the future, I won't.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.
- Diagoras
- Guru
- Posts: 1392
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:47 am
- Has thanked: 170 times
- Been thanked: 579 times
Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #396I last posted in this thread back on Page 12, so there's clearly been a lot of further debate on the subject.
Would someone please point me to the post(s) since mine that present the strongest argument for the existence of demons? I don't really have the time to read nearly thirty pages with multiple tangents. Thanks.
Would someone please point me to the post(s) since mine that present the strongest argument for the existence of demons? I don't really have the time to read nearly thirty pages with multiple tangents. Thanks.
-
- Scholar
- Posts: 354
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:49 pm
- Location: Seattle
- Been thanked: 6 times
Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #397Ancient Demon "spoke" earlier on this thread (as I recorded its words).John Human wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:18 pm
[snip]
In addition, as I have mentioned on other threads, I have recorded lengthy stories of two ancient Hebrew demons (both of whom were involved with the Roman Catholic Church in the centuries following the destruction of Jerusalem) at http://earthwarning.org/index.php/here-be-demons/
I have also recorded the stories of other demons (including demons involved with the founding of Islam and the Mormon church) at viewtopic.php?t=35478
Ancient Demon will now speak:
Ancient Demon had a sense. The discussion did not have relevance. Two intended to argue, obfuscacting what was said in the first part of this "thread."
-
- Prodigy
- Posts: 3187
- Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
- Has thanked: 1510 times
- Been thanked: 824 times
Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #398I've oft wondered why, if a believer is speaking 'for god' (defending it, protecting it, whatever) they tend to misspeak, misspell, etc, don't seem to bat an eye at the faith they have in ancient writers being exact with their stories in the bible not making the same mistakes.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!
-
- Scholar
- Posts: 354
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:49 pm
- Location: Seattle
- Been thanked: 6 times
Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #399Ancient Demon "spoke" toward the beginning of this thread, and I recorded its words as they appeared in my mind. In this fashion, Ancient Demon will speak again:Diagoras wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:47 pm I last posted in this thread back on Page 12, so there's clearly been a lot of further debate on the subject.
Would someone please point me to the post(s) since mine that present the strongest argument for the existence of demons? I don't really have the time to read nearly thirty pages with multiple tangents. Thanks.
Ancient Demon did not discuss the possibility of visiting. If a skeptic would receive, Ancient Demon will visit.
- Clownboat
- Savant
- Posts: 9381
- Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:42 pm
- Has thanked: 906 times
- Been thanked: 1261 times
Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?
Post #400Modern demon has claimed that ancient demon is a figment of your imagination.John Human wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:17 amAncient Demon "spoke" toward the beginning of this thread, and I recorded its words as they appeared in my mind. In this fashion, Ancient Demon will speak again:Diagoras wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:47 pm I last posted in this thread back on Page 12, so there's clearly been a lot of further debate on the subject.
Would someone please point me to the post(s) since mine that present the strongest argument for the existence of demons? I don't really have the time to read nearly thirty pages with multiple tangents. Thanks.
Ancient Demon did not discuss the possibility of visiting. If a skeptic would receive, Ancient Demon will visit.
I'm sorry, but that is how the words appeared in my mind. Ancient demon can still be an invisible friend though.
IMO, you should forget ancient demon and seek out modern demon.
Did you know that gullibility is a made up word and doesn't even exist in dictionaries? Fascinating right?
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb