Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

[John Human]

When I lived in Bali, I couldn't help observing the pervasive evidence of belief in demons. And of course demons put in an appearance in the Bible, not to mention in the gargoyles of old cathedrals.

On the other hand, modern science would seem to categorically reject the existence of demons, without a clear reason why, unless it has to do with the axiomatic presuppositions of science's governing ideology of reductionist materialism.

Question: Do demons exist? What evidence is there, for or against?

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[otseng]

It is my understanding that Ancient Demon has already directly communicated with a number of people who are active in this forum.

Moderator Comment

Though it is not currently against the rules, saying that a demon (angel, spirit, etc) spoke to you cannot be used as evidence for any claim. You are free to post what you think they've said to you, but it does not qualify as supporting any argument. Also, do not assume others have also communicated with the demon that spoke to you.


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Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[John Human]

[Replying to post 69 by John Human]

I'll consider that when I get home. In the meantime, please verify that your demon has contacted multiple active users of this forum. That's the really juicy claim, and the one you don't seem to acknowledge you made.

Perhaps, if you went back and double-checked the language I used, you would not use the word "claim."
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[Neatras]

[Replying to post 72 by John Human]

Couching it in language such as "it is my understanding that" doesn't make it not a claim. Please don't try and redesign the language to make yourself less accountable. Since the administration has deemed claims of demonic contact to be impermissible anyway as evidence, the topic is effectively cut short here. Your sole means of justifying claims came from the assertion that we can directly communicate with these non-physical entities, and since that's been rendered a disallowed argument, we need a new starter.
I figure this thread could be locked. "Demons can not be shown to exist. It cannot be tested."

[John Human]

[Replying to post 72 by John Human]

Couching it in language such as "it is my understanding that" doesn't make it not a claim.

Excuse me? You see a hallucinatory claim, and you dismiss the clear meaning of the language I used as you reiterate your groundless assertion that I made a claim.

Please don't try and redesign the language to make yourself less accountable.

This motherly admonition comes after you try to redefine the word "understanding" to equate it with "claim."

For the moderators who are presumably observing, "understanding," in this case, refers to statements received from a source that I have found to be generally reliable.

[Neatras]

[Replying to post 74 by John Human]

It's my understanding that we should get back on topic, which is verification of claims with contact of nonphysical entities such as demons. Since your "tests" succumb to confirmation bias and wishful thinking, you're at a disadvantage and need to post an actually reliable method. The say so of a demon is not evidence, as the admin has stated.

[John Human]

[Replying to post 74 by John Human]

It's my understanding that we should get back on topic, which is verification of claims with contact of nonphysical entities such as demons. Since your "tests" succumb to confirmation bias and wishful thinking, you're at a disadvantage and need to post an actually reliable method. The say so of a demon is not evidence, as the admin has stated.

You are entitled to your opinion.

Your earlier posts gave the strong impression of deliberate misrepresentation and lack of good faith, compounded by your ongoing refusal to quote anything that I actually said. Your continued unsupported assertions give the strong impression of being simply more of the same, as does the misleading insinuation embedded in your statement that "the say so of a demon is not evidence."

To others reading this exchange, I suppose that Neatras's continued abuse is a good example of an attempt to enforce the taboo against open discussion of the existence of demons.

[William]

William: All I am interested in regarding the injection of the idea of John Human as a medium for The Ancient Demon [TAG] is whether TAG requires me to believe that John Human is to be trusted as TAGs mouthpiece.

What assurances can TAG provide which will help us know that TAG isn't just an invented sock-puppet saying whatever words John Human places in its 'mouth'?

Ancient Demon:

[Neatras]

[Replying to post 76 by John Human]

Hey, don't take my word for it. The big man himself has said that claiming to speak for a demon does not constitute evidence for any argument. So you're going to have to try something else.

You can claim I act in bad faith, that I harass, that I abuse. These are all manipulations of rhetoric to try and direct public opinion against me. These do not constitute arguments, and as such are trivial and easily discarded. So, again, try something else.

[John Human]

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Moderator removed one-line, non-contributing post. Kindly refrain from making posts that contribute nothing to debate and/or simply express agreement / disagreement or make other frivolous remarks.

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[Clownboat]

William: All I am interested in regarding the injection of the idea of John Human as a medium for The Ancient Demon [TAG] is whether TAG requires me to believe that John Human is to be trusted as TAGs mouthpiece.

What assurances can TAG provide which will help us know that TAG isn't just an invented sock-puppet saying whatever words John Human places in its 'mouth'?

Ancient Demon:

All this would seem to be inappropriate.

How can anyone have a discussion with you if you cannot participate without having this victim mentality you display on virtually every one of your posts?

Neatras and William are pointing out how we so far do not know that the ancient demon is not an invention of your own imagination (or whatever). For all we know, you are just trolling everyone here and having a good laugh with yourself. This is a fact and not an attack on you. Please see if for what it is, because when you see attacks on you when there are none, it makes the demon being a delusion all the more likely from our end.

If it's a real entity, I sure wish it would communicate with me. I'll keep waiting for now.