Realization leads to God

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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Swami
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Realization leads to God

Post #1

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I would like to introduce the concept of realization. Realization is the way to true knowledge. To realize means that you become aware of something that was always there. This is what I practice.

In the West, the theory for gaining knowledge is that it must be learned. On a very basic level I agree. However, you will not see the big picture. Besides that, you are wasting a lot of time and energy.

What many scientists do not understand is that we exist in consciousness. All knowledge is contained in it since we can not experience anything outside of it. You then ask, if we all possess consciousness, then why don't we know everything? Why do we learn as if things exist outside of our awareness? The problem is the mind and senses. They are limited. They create the illusion of something "out there". If you follow the full implications of what I am saying, then there is nothing out there to learn. That means it's already in you waiting to be "realized". Intuition is a form of realization and scientists already accept this! It is knowledge that comes to you without learning.

Where does God come in? It comes from you realizing that you are omniscient, and everything exist in you.

Is intuition a product of realization or learning?

Please offer me a scientific reason for relying on learning over intuition.

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Post by Swami »

Mr.Badham wrote: Fri May 22, 2020 1:46 am Does this mean that I don’t exist outside of your consciousness?
Nothing exists outside of consciousness. Consciousness is not yours nor mine. It is not limited to a body. What's limited is your perspective.


Yoga Vasistha
Book III; Chapter 42:25
"There is one Consciousness that fills all space. It appears as everything both within and without everybody. It is only by our illusive conception of it that we take it in different lights."

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Re: Re:

Post #12

Post by Goat »

Swami wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 12:12 am
Mr.Badham wrote: Fri May 22, 2020 1:46 am Does this mean that I don’t exist outside of your consciousness?
Nothing exists outside of consciousness. Consciousness is not yours nor mine. It is not limited to a body. What's limited is your perspective.


Yoga Vasistha
Book III; Chapter 42:25
"There is one Consciousness that fills all space. It appears as everything both within and without everybody. It is only by our illusive conception of it that we take it in different lights."
How do you know that 'nothing exists outside consciousness'? What evidence can you present me that it is not limited to the body? Can you back up your claim with objective and tangible evidence? What do you have that you can show me that your statements are true.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

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Post #13

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Goat wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:47 pm "There is one Consciousness that fills all space. It appears as everything both within and without everybody. It is only by our illusive conception of it that we take it in different lights."
How do you know that 'nothing exists outside consciousness'? [/quote]
When you perceive with the bodily senses, then you see things separate from you. When you are able to perceive without your senses, then you realize that everything exist as part you. Someone might inquirer about which perception is correct? I do not frame the issue as true or false but rather one leads to a greater awareness.
Goat wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:47 pm What evidence can you present me that it is not limited to the body? Can you back up your claim with objective and tangible evidence? What do you have that you can show me that your statements are true.
If I explained the evidence then it would lead to too much thinking and not enough experiencing. Debating never changes any minds, but plenty have changed their minds after they've experienced.

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Re: Realization leads to God

Post #14

Post by Dimmesdale »

Swami wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:01 am What many scientists do not understand is that we exist in consciousness. All knowledge is contained in it since we can not experience anything outside of it.
That makes no sense. If I was born blind, does that mean color doesn't exist because I cannot experience anything outside of black?

I am with you that consciousness exists, and we are a part of it - I am something of a pan-en-theist. But your argument doesn't go anywhere. Just because we can't experience it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We simply lack the means of experiencing it.
Swami wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:01 amYou then ask, if we all possess consciousness, then why don't we know everything? Why do we learn as if things exist outside of our awareness? The problem is the mind and senses. They are limited. They create the illusion of something "out there". If you follow the full implications of what I am saying, then there is nothing out there to learn. That means it's already in you waiting to be "realized". Intuition is a form of realization and scientists already accept this! It is knowledge that comes to you without learning.
I believe in intuition. But I also believe in an external world. And there is no way to disprove it. Except by a so-called "realization" which I don't believe in. I don't believe "you" are the only thing that exists. Now that is a limited way of thinking.
Swami wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:01 amWhere does God come in? It comes from you realizing that you are omniscient, and everything exist in you.
Nope. If you are omniscient, you would never think yourself limited.

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Re: Realization leads to God

Post #15

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Dimmesdale wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:43 pm
Swami wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:01 am What many scientists do not understand is that we exist in consciousness. All knowledge is contained in it since we can not experience anything outside of it.
That makes no sense. If I was born blind, does that mean color doesn't exist because I cannot experience anything outside of black?
Consciousness is experience itself. You can not separate the two. In my philosophy, everything in the world consist of 3 things:
Bliss, awareness, and existence. Nothing can exist without these 3 things.
Dimmesdale wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:43 pm I am with you that consciousness exists, and we are a part of it - I am something of a pan-en-theist. But your argument doesn't go anywhere. Just because we can't experience it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We simply lack the means of experiencing it.
I have experienced without the body, without the mind, but no one can experience without existence and consciousness. These are fundamental.
Dimmesdale wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:43 pm I believe in intuition. But I also believe in an external world. And there is no way to disprove it. Except by a so-called "realization" which I don't believe in. I don't believe "you" are the only thing that exists. Now that is a limited way of thinking.
I do not ask people to believe nor to even think. None of those two will convince you. In my philosophy, the best way to learn is through experience, and meditation allows us to experience any and everything in the Universe. You do not need telescopes, microscopes, and you don't even need your senses. You just need meditation.

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Re: Realization leads to God

Post #16

Post by Tcg »

Swami wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:13 pm
I have experienced without the body,
Unless you have died and totally rotted away, this claim can't be true. If you have died and totally rotted away, you wouldn't be typing this unsupported claim.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Re:

Post #17

Post by Tcg »

Swami wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:22 pm Debating never changes any minds, but plenty have changed their minds after they've experienced.
And yet here you are debating in a debate sub-forum. If your claim is true, why are you expending all this effort debating that which you can't provide evidence of?


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Realization leads to God

Post #18

Post by Swami »

Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:28 pm
Swami wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:22 pm Debating never changes any minds, but plenty have changed their minds after they've experienced.
And yet here you are debating in a debate sub-forum. If your claim is true, why are you expending all this effort debating that which you can't provide evidence of?


Tcg
Why do I feel bullied again?

I gave you evidence and you are not satisfied. Now what? Are you going to gather your skeptics and bully me into some endless debate?

This bullying is an expression of intolerance and not real "debate".

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Re: Realization leads to God

Post #19

Post by Tcg »

Swami wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:52 pm
Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:28 pm
Swami wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:22 pm Debating never changes any minds, but plenty have changed their minds after they've experienced.
And yet here you are debating in a debate sub-forum. If your claim is true, why are you expending all this effort debating that which you can't provide evidence of?


Tcg
Why do I feel bullied again?
I have no idea as none is taking place.

I gave you evidence and you are not satisfied. Now what? Are you going to gather your skeptics and bully me into some endless debate?
What evidence? What bullying? What gathering of skeptics?

This bullying is an expression of intolerance and not real "debate".
There is no bullying taking place. If you can't support your claims, pointing that fact out is not bullying.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Realization leads to God

Post #20

Post by William »

Swami wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:52 pm
Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:28 pm
Swami wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:22 pm Debating never changes any minds, but plenty have changed their minds after they've experienced.
And yet here you are debating in a debate sub-forum. If your claim is true, why are you expending all this effort debating that which you can't provide evidence of?


Tcg
Why do I feel bullied again?

I gave you evidence and you are not satisfied. Now what? Are you going to gather your skeptics and bully me into some endless debate?

This bullying is an expression of intolerance and not real "debate".
Perhaps you are dabbling in meditation and where it takes you on occasion, and thus not yet fully immersed/integrated with that greater knowledge you say you have because of meditation?
Otherwise why would you feel like you are being bullied? Your claims are contradicted by your feelings and thus your thoughts, also.

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