What is ' consciousness ' ?

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Thomas123
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What is ' consciousness ' ?

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Post by Thomas123 »

This word appears to be at the centre of many discussions on this forum. It also appears to mean different things to different people and, therein lies the root of our miscommunication. What range and definement do you attribute to, ' consciousness ' ?

Is there an external consciousness in the world?. Can I tune into a shared consciousness. I am listening to Prime Minister's Question Time, ....is Boris tuned into a universal human consciousness as he delivers his address. Is his brain working ,simultaneously and in tandem with my own consciousness and with that of others?

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William
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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

Post #71

Post by William »

[Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #69]
One of my doubts about consciousness being physical is that it is unlike any other physical thing in the Universe in that there is a subjective aspect to it. What type of phenomena is it? And I'm not just referring to just simply qualitative feelings or experiences, like subjective feeling of pain, but even the content of mental experiences, like mental imagery, dreams, etc. If hallucinations are classified as non-physical or non-existent because they don't really occupy space, then why can't mental imagery of any kind be thought of the same way?!
It may be that such imagery does create universes which can be experience as real - in that it is a pattern repeating itself through the layers of creation as a matter of natural effect - along the lines of the idea that we exist within a reality experience which was created through mental imagery, and that our own mental imagery in turn, creates reality experiences in the same natural manner.

In this, once an individuate consciousness shifts from this reality experience to the next, what is then experienced by the individual is the sum total of that individuals expectations [conscious and subconscious mental imagery coupled with beliefs, attitudes/personality...] and such could also be experience with or without the individual knowing that it is they who created said environment they experience...

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AgnosticBoy
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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

Post #72

Post by AgnosticBoy »

William wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:17 am It may be that such imagery does create universes which can be experience as real - in that it is a pattern repeating itself through the layers of creation as a matter of natural effect - along the lines of the idea that we exist within a reality experience which was created through mental imagery, and that our own mental imagery in turn, creates reality experiences in the same natural manner.

In this, once an individuate consciousness shifts from this reality experience to the next, what is then experienced by the individual is the sum total of that individuals expectations [conscious and subconscious mental imagery coupled with beliefs, attitudes/personality...] and such could also be experience with or without the individual knowing that it is they who created said environment they experience...
Interesting thought! It reminds of something I posted a while ago regarding virtual reality:
There is an apple in front of me. I can see it, but I can't touch it. The reason is that the apple is actually a 3-D rendered model of an apple. It looks like an apple, but exists only within a virtual environment - one that is projected onto the computer screen in front of me. I can interact with the apple. I have an avatar that I can control on the screen. That avatar is a virtual projection of my self. It can pick up the apple, throw it around the virtual room, or eat it. But I can't touch it and interact with it using my own physical hands.

Is the apple real? Of course not: it's virtual.

To warm up, let's think a little bit more about the opening example of the virtual apple. As Brey points out, this apple clearly exists in some form. It is not a mirage or hallucination. It really exists within the virtual environment. But its existence has a distinctive metaphysical quality to it. It does not exist qua real apple. You cannot bite into it or taste its flesh. But it does exist qua representation or simulation.

An apple does not exist qua real apple unless it has certain physical properties and attributes. It has to have mass, occupy space, consist in a certain mix of proteins, sugars and fats, and so on. A virtual apple cannot have those properties and hence cannot be the same thing as a real apple.

The same goes for detectives like Sherlock Holmes. Although there are some complexities there. Human detectives have to have mass, occupy space, and consist in a certain mix of proteins and metabolic processes
.
Source: The Reality of Virtual Reality: A Philosophical Analysis by John Danaher
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- As a non-partisan, I like to be on the side of truth. - AB

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William
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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

Post #73

Post by William »

The whole point of a reality simulation is that one can fully immerse and experience it as real. In every case the only 'real' is that which is experiencing, not that which is being experienced...but that which is experienced can be made to appear real by that which is experiencing it..."Consciousness"...

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The Barbarian
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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

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Post by The Barbarian »

This might be a useful read, for anyone interested in the problem:
https://www.harvard.com/book/metazoa/

It's a little intense on the biological basis of nervous systems, but eventually it gets down to the question, and does it well, I think.

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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

Post #75

Post by William »

The Barbarian wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:49 pm This might be a useful read, for anyone interested in the problem:
https://www.harvard.com/book/metazoa/

It's a little intense on the biological basis of nervous systems, but eventually it gets down to the question, and does it well, I think.
For myself I am interested in how the planet Earth manages to create such myriad of life form if it [she] is not itself [herself] 'with mind'.

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The Barbarian
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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

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Post by The Barbarian »

William wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:18 pm
The Barbarian wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:49 pm This might be a useful read, for anyone interested in the problem:
https://www.harvard.com/book/metazoa/

It's a little intense on the biological basis of nervous systems, but eventually it gets down to the question, and does it well, I think.
For myself I am interested in how the planet Earth manages to create such myriad of life form if it [she] is not itself [herself] 'with mind'.
That idea is examined in the book. I figure a Creator could build a world capable of bringing forth whatever He had in mind.

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William
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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

Post #77

Post by William »

The Barbarian wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:29 pm
William wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:18 pm
The Barbarian wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:49 pm This might be a useful read, for anyone interested in the problem:
https://www.harvard.com/book/metazoa/

It's a little intense on the biological basis of nervous systems, but eventually it gets down to the question, and does it well, I think.
For myself I am interested in how the planet Earth manages to create such myriad of life form if it [she] is not itself [herself] 'with mind'.
That idea is examined in the book. I figure a Creator could build a world capable of bringing forth whatever He had in mind.
I suppose that She could...but wouldn't it be more 'hands on' to actually be the mind of the planet and do the creating in that manner?

That way one could experience being - not only the planet, but also being all the individuate life forms on the planet...simultaneously ... certainly it would make for one heck of an adventure...something to do whilst being eternal...something to do within a snippet of eternity...

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The Barbarian
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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

Post #78

Post by The Barbarian »

William wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:41 pm I suppose that She could...but wouldn't it be more 'hands on' to actually be the mind of the planet and do the creating in that manner?[/qoute]

That's pretty much what the Bible means when it says that not even a sparrow falls without His notice. If He were to take His mind away from us, we wouldn't even exist.
That way one could experience being - not only the planet, but also being all the individuate life forms on the planet...simultaneously ... certainly it would make for one heck of an adventure...something to do whilst being eternal...something to do within a snippet of eternity...
And, as Stephen Gould once speculated, finally producing something like His own awareness, with whom to share it all.

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Diagoras
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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

Post #79

Post by Diagoras »

[Replying to Thomas123 in post #71]

There’s a recent article on the subject which I found interesting. Some persuasive points, although limited hard evidence so much scientific experiment to be performed before we might draw firm conclusions.

https://aeon.co/essays/does-consciousne ... nteresting

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William
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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

Post #80

Post by William »

Diagoras wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:13 pm [Replying to Thomas123 in post #71]

There’s a recent article on the subject which I found interesting. Some persuasive points, although limited hard evidence so much scientific experiment to be performed before we might draw firm conclusions.

https://aeon.co/essays/does-consciousne ... nteresting
Good reading. I would enjoy discussing this idea in more detail...

I am watching this video at present...


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